0:00
previously on the Shawn Ryan [Music]
0:05
Show and you know you can’t let that happen that’s that’s a big risk to you and to Ryan your lawyer that’s a big
0:13
risk but they are shredding ballot in my opinion based on what I’ve heard and
0:19
they are removing Machinery uh and they’re moving it as fast as they can so look all I want to
0:26
do is this I just want to find
0:32
11,780 votes which is one more than we have you can’t just listen to excerpts
0:40
from the call you have to listen to the entirety of the call the entire theory of the case comes down
0:48
to did he knowingly push false claims of election
0:53
fraud to try to overturn you know the will of the people and install himself
0:59
wrong y as president for a second
1:08
[Music]
1:13
[Music]
1:21
time get away from the Trump Biden you know Division I think that a lot of
1:28
people who who who who who who can see past you know the the
1:35
the the candidates I mean this is this is this is the future of our country yeah you know and that is what I most me
1:43
personally that’s what I’m most concerned about is is this going to set the president from here on out to to B you
1:52
know to polit politically persecute your opponent and and that’s a big fear that
2:00
I have you know and and and then I think a lot of people share this fear yeah
Will political persecution be the norm?
2:07
it’s real I mean it’s something that um that I saw in in my own career um not
2:15
just this case but you know I started my career in New York City uh doing criminal defense doing in the beginning
2:21
mostly State work uh but then transitioning to primarily Federal and um Believe It or Not the
2:29
Only camp aign that I’ve ever been involved in was when uh Morgan thaw was
2:34
going to retire as the Manhattan district attorney uh after you know 40 some years in the
2:40
position and I actively participated in s Vance’s
2:46
campaign and I thought that he was really going to fix the system because he came in with all these wonderful
2:52
campaign promises about how he was going to do Discovery differently how he was going to evaluate you know plea deals
2:59
differently how he was going to do all these things that were actually going to improve the fairness of the
3:08
system and it and he won and I and I went to the party yeah the victory
3:16
party where you his his victory was only a few
3:21
hours old before he said I’m not going to do that Discovery
3:28
policy and I have tried cases against that
3:35
office that were based not upon what is going to
3:40
keep New Yorkers safe but based upon you know what is going to be the best
3:46
headlines and the best campaign things for C Vance’s
3:54
reelection so I personally am not a big fan
4:00
of elected laww enforcement officials period I have the same problem with a
4:07
lot of sheriffs and don’t get me wrong there are some phenomenal sheriffs out there I’m not saying this as a general rule
4:15
but being an elected law enforcement official is an invitation to
4:24
abuse it’s an invitation to asking for political donations and if you don’t
4:31
give the right donations you know what what’s you know are you going to get extra parking tickets and things like
4:36
that you know judges in New York are elected I had a case in a different
4:43
County from where I was normally it was one of the upstate counties Westchester and even though I was not
4:50
involved in any of this politics stuff at all had this case before this judge who
4:57
is in my opinion not giving the best rulings and then all of a sudden I got a
5:04
campaign solicitation from the judge from from somebody on the judge’s
Donating money to Judges
5:11
behalf asking me to donate money to the
5:17
judge that I’m appearing in front
5:22
of and I sat there as I’m reading this you know my my blood went cold of like
5:27
am I actually being asked to give money to the judge in order for her to start
5:33
giving good rulings in this case wow wow that is
5:40
scary I mean I didn’t I didn’t donate to
5:46
her but you a big part of me sat there and read that and said you know what if
5:51
this was all Anonymous like if there wasn’t this whole you know campaign donor list I wouldn’t donate to her
5:58
anyway because she doesn’t understand the rules she’s making rulings that are not correct
6:07
wow how often do you think this happens in the country every day bad every day and that’s
6:16
why putting money money in politics causes
6:22
abuse politics and law enforcement causes abuse money in politics and law
6:28
enforcement is a disaster that’s where you have people
6:34
like Fanny Willis Leticia James fundraising asking for
6:41
money on the idea that if you elect me I will get Donald
6:46
Trump I am going to use your taxpayer dollars to take out our political
6:53
rival as opposed to spending those taxpayer dollars on stopping rape and
7:00
murder in our streets and they get
7:10
elected yeah can we talk about um before we leave the Georgia case can we talk
7:16
about why is Rudy Giuliani elected or I’m I’m sorry
7:22
indicted that to me is the biggest tragedy of this whole thing um you know Rudy Giuliani
7:36
Ru is America’s mayor he was well-loved
7:42
I don’t like what they’re doing to him now you know was everything
7:49
done right in the election uh you know investigation and litigation no do I
7:57
agree with everything that they did not NE necessarily did some did they make some mistakes yes they
8:04
did should he be losing his law license should he be losing all of his life
8:12
savings should he be now potentially going to jail she wants a life she wants a jail
8:20
sentence out of Rudy Giuliani that exceeds his life
8:28
expectancy she wants him to die in a Georgia jail
8:34
cell that’s not right that’s not Justice why is he in that
8:41
case to me people are angry at him because he was the face of the team that
8:49
was pushing these election frog claims and because they don’t like that
8:57
and what it led to they they want to punish people that they’re angry
9:02
with and so that’s why in my opinion rud
9:08
is in that situation last night at
9:15
dinner you had brought up that he has past his
Rudy Giuliani has passed his prime?
9:21
prime can you dig into that you know
9:27
I I’m concerned [Music]
9:36
um I I like Rudy gilani a lot um
9:41
and I think that um it is obvious that
9:47
anybody um you as they continue on in their career eventually they you know
9:52
lose a few steps mhm um is that the cause of what happened here
9:59
I don’t know um not necessarily I think that quite frankly the cause of a lot of
10:05
this stuff is um lack of resources I’ll give you an example in a
10:12
minute but lack of resources leads to an inability to fully
10:19
investigate claims which increases the risk that you
10:25
present claims that are not fully vetted
10:35
I my personal opinion I would have much preferred for Rudy Giuliani be to be
10:42
America’s mayor retired I would much prefer for him to
10:49
be writing books giving speeches being comfortable in the Legacy
10:56
that he built through what he did in New York New York City
11:03
um and it’s kind of an extreme example but it somewhat reminds me of Jim
11:12
Stockdale you know I I was a big fan of Ross perau I
11:17
thought he did a lot of uh very good things certainly did a lot of great things in his you know in his business
11:25
uh and taking care of his people uh I thought that he brought a lot of interesting ideas to the election
11:30
when he ran as a third party candidate the one thing that I completely disagree with Ros perau on was naming Jim
11:38
Stockdale as his running mate because Stockdale is a
11:45
hero you know he was Medal of Honor recipient senior prisoner of war in
11:53
Vietnam and by the time that they got to the debates he was unfortunately Ely
12:00
passed his Prime and now if I walk down the street
12:06
and I ask people you know just grab some random person do you know who Jim Stockdale is
12:12
yeah I remember him he was the guy in the vice presidential debate that got all disoriented and started saying who
12:18
am I why am I here you know there’s there’s an element
12:25
of where you want to take your Heroes and allow them to be
12:33
retired you had mentioned something that he had done when he was in the the hanoy
12:40
Hilton and I didn’t know who this man was before you spoke of him last night can
12:48
you can you elaborate on on that I want to show you know the audience what this
12:54
man did for this country mhm and how he will
13:01
be remembered so Admiral Stockdale uh then
13:08
I think he was a captain he was either captain or Commander then um he was a
13:14
senior US service member in the Hanoi Hilton he he was the leader he took care
13:23
of the other prisoners um he kept them all together
13:29
and when the Vietnamese wanted to do a uh a propaganda
13:35
video and they wanted to present him in this propaganda video he beat his own face
13:48
in he he disfigured himself to Rob them of the propaganda
13:55
[Music] opportunity
14:01
and he set the standard so that everybody else would also stay
14:08
true as a result the treatment improved because they couldn’t
14:16
allow their propaganda to be showing the brutality and so what he did to himself
14:23
actually resulted in them throttling back and it improved the conditions for the American people
14:35
ws and he was used past his prime yeah and now he will be
14:41
remembered exactly for what you said exactly so you know for for anybody
14:47
listening to this you know if you think of Jim Stockdale as a VP candidate think
14:53
of him as as the admiral of the p
14:59
and that’s how Giuliani will be remembered Giuliani I
15:06
fear runs a risk of potentially you know dying in a jail
15:12
cell you know I I don’t think that the case against
15:18
him if fairly heard in the appeals process I don’t
15:24
think that it would be upheld so I do think that he would you know be released
15:29
but the reality is I wouldn’t want him you know being subjected to
15:35
that I mean the stress of going through a a major criminal case like this is
15:43
something that will itself take years off of your
15:49
life so now I feel very strongly um about you know about the
15:57
inclusion of him as a as a codefendant in this case what would the worst case scenario be in the
What’s the worst case scenario in the Georgia case?
16:04
Georgia indictments for both Trump and for Giuliani jail sentences that exceed
16:11
their life expectancy for both of them yeah yeah you got to remember
16:17
racketeering has major time associated with it life sentences because
16:23
racketeering is intended for the bosses of mafia
16:32
families you a lot of the other lawyers that are doing these cases you know
16:39
they’ve most of the lawyers that are in these cases a lot of them are former Federal prosecutors who’ve then gone out
16:46
on on the defense side and they become uh defense attorneys although you know they call themselves White Collar you
16:53
know defense attorneys um I think I told you I I hate the term White Collar
16:59
because you know to me somebody said this years ago and it really stuck with me white collar doesn’t
17:06
exist white collar crime is a term that was invented by former prosecutors that
17:13
would allow them to make money being criminal defense attorneys without somehow feeling
17:18
dirty but the reality is you know a lot of white collar crime Bernie maid off
17:24
things like that you know they heard just as many people and you know whenever I’m around these
17:31
people and they’re like oh you know are you a white collar lawyer I just look at him and say I’m a red collar lawyer red
17:38
collar yeah white collar with a splash of blood you get these former Federal
17:44
prosecutors who have never really dealt with defending a RICO
17:49
case you get these political lawyers that are all about you know being party
17:55
insiders and all that kind of stuffff and really what this case
18:01
requires is the people that I started practicing
18:07
with the people that I learned how to practice law from which is the core group of New York
18:14
City criminal lawyers who were you know the backbone of the John Gotti
18:20
defenses all of the big mob cases ironically all of Rudy juliani’s enemies
18:28
back when he was at the US attorney’s office and because the way that you look at an
18:35
organized crime case and the way that you deconstruct a federal RICO case in
18:41
that scenario is exactly what they need to be doing here you because I look at
18:46
it and I say you know one of the things that Rico requires is
18:54
continuity continuity means that it is an organiz organization that is not for
19:00
a very distinct purpose not for a single event it’s something that’s going to
19:07
continue over the course of period of time you know a drug cartel is going to
19:14
continue to sell drugs to kill people commit murder Mayhem and all those
19:20
things a mafia family is going to continue to have all of these you know
19:26
lone sharking gambling all of these things a campaign that is trying to
19:34
challenge the results of one election has no continuity to it
19:42
whatsoever and the precedent that they’re trying to set in this case By
19:48
ignoring that continuity requirement means that anytime that two
19:53
or more people get together and commit two or more crimes to
19:59
together Fanny Willis says that’s a RICO so if you and I decide you we’re going
20:05
to go rob a bank okay we’re going to steal a gum we’re going to steal a car we’re going to rob a
20:11
bank we’re going to have three hours of absolute Mayhem right
20:17
MH under Fanny Willis that’s
20:23
racketeering it stretches the definitions far beyond
20:28
what the legislature intended are you saying just the conversation alone is rocketeering in theory in theory to well
20:37
more than the conversation you can’t just have a conversation you have to have an overact INF furtherance of it so
20:43
you have to actually start the planning you have to you know actually go do something you know we need we need at
20:50
least need to steal the car um we haven’t committed racketeering on camera yet um but but under her
21:01
theory that 3-hour episode is
21:07
racketeering and that’s the reason why I believe that this case should be
21:14
considered by a federal appell court or District Court
21:19
to say you are not in accordance with the Supreme Court case law on the continuity
21:26
requirement of Rico and once you rip out the
21:31
continuity then this whole building that she’s built here you rip out continuity
21:37
now Rico goes away now her ability to touch what’s
21:42
happened in Coffee County goes away what happened in the State House goes away what happened in Pennsylvania goes away
21:48
and all she’s left with is a very tiny
21:55
case because hardly anything happened in fton
22:01
County interesting how do you think George is going to play
22:09
out I think that they’re going to keep trying to push for the speedy trial I
22:14
think the Judge is smart enough to realize that’s not going to happen I think that people are going to start to
22:20
file motions to dismiss on some of the things that I’ve I’ve mentioned here I
22:25
think he’s going to get bogged down in motion practice I think think that ultimately especially when you’re
22:31
talking about a 4 to 8 month long trial and potentially a few extra months for
22:36
jury selection I think it’s going to get pushed down past the election and I think it’s one of those things where
22:42
it’s a big bang in the beginning and my prediction it’s going
22:48
to end in more of a fizzle am I missing anything when it
22:54
comes to the Georgia case no I mean that’s the big thing there is is that it
23:02
is like the DC case but structurally less
23:10
sound and that’s that’s one of the problems with you know as lawyers you always try not to
23:18
overstep and you know because if you if you have a legitimate claim and you try
23:24
to inflate it into something that it’s not you risk losing the whole thing whereas
23:30
you would have maintained your credibility by just coming in with whatever that legitimate claim
23:36
was you know if they have issues with how certain things were done in fton
23:43
County go with that but I think that really what you’re
23:49
going to see here is that Fanny Willis because she is focused on her own
23:56
election and I suspect the presidential election
24:02
because she’s focused on political factors as opposed to Legal
24:07
factors I think that that’s where this is going to
24:13
fail well thank you for diving into Georgia let’s take a break when we get back we’ll get into the classified
24:19
document indictments at uh down in Florida all
24:25
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Shan this show is sponsored by better help how many of you out there are looking forward to the upcoming holiday
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Florida Classified documents
27:21
Shan all right Tim we’re back from the break let’s let’s move into Florida the
27:26
classified document so 2022 the justice department opened an
27:31
investigation into Trump’s retention of classified documents after his presidency June 2022 a
27:39
lawyer avowed that Trump had turned over all classified records but 2 months later the FBI searched Mar Lago and
27:47
seized 102 documents with classified markings Trump pleaded not guilty on
27:52
June 13th 2023 27th of July 2023 three superseding
27:58
indictment adding three new felony charges new indictments include allegations that
28:05
Trump NAA and day olivaria sought to
28:10
destroy security camera footage of marago after investigations tried to obtain the
28:16
footage trial scheduled for May 20th 2024 in Florida charges 40 felony
28:22
charges 32 felony counts of willful retention of National Defense information and violation of the
28:28
Espionage Act six felony accounts of obstruction related crimes two felony accounts of false statements the
28:36
Espionage Act makes it a crime to retain records containing sensitive National
28:41
Security information first question mhm why would
28:47
they have deleted the security footage they didn’t they didn’t they
28:53
didn’t that that’s that was one of those kind of surpris ing uh charges there
29:01
because doj subpoenaed the footage and they turned it all
29:09
over are you serious I am how was how was he being they’re
29:15
claiming their claim is that some people had a discussion about deleting footage and
29:24
some of the employees said you know can we delete the
29:30
footage and the answer was no you can’t delete delete the
29:35
footage and that’s the charge so no no footage was
29:43
deleted so the Char I’m sorry let’s yeah the charge is that they had a discussion
29:50
about deleting the footage it’s not that they actually deleted the footage correct there was a discussion correct
29:56
and if you read the indictment even though it charges president Trump as being part of it they’re actually
30:01
claiming that there was a conversation between two other people and one of them said the boss would like the footage
30:12
deleted but but nobody’ actually say well that he actually said that and
30:18
here’s one of the things that I learned in representing him when I’m told the boss would
30:25
like it doesn’t always mean that the boss would like yeah often times it
30:31
means I’m just using his name to make you do what I want you to
30:38
do I I don’t understand how this is a crime I mean some of this stuff just seems like an initial reaction yeah you
30:45
know I mean so yeah the the Florida case is is weird it’s it’s different from all
30:53
the others um so the Florida case was investigated
30:59
by the National Security division which is not where you get your top criminal
31:07
lawyers at all uh in fact most of the people on this case have no clue what
31:13
they’re doing in a courtroom okay the guy in charge uh guy by the name of Jay
31:20
brat in my opinion based on my observations of him I think that he is a
31:26
completely unethical person who should not be anywhere near government
31:33
service if you look at the way that this case was investigated he wanted to do a search warrant from the beginning before
31:42
having any information about there being any potential improper
31:47
conduct he has throughout lied to federal
31:53
judges in my presence he has tried to do everything
31:59
he could to turn this into a criminal case when it didn’t need to be and based
32:08
on my experience this is the type of case that was handled differently from the
32:15
beginning in order to create a criminal case than how it is handled with anybody
32:21
else in a similar circumstance because ultimately if you have have a a spillage
32:30
of classified material what you should be doing is you should be having the intelligence
32:37
Community working in administrative investigation to locate and
32:44
contain all that classified information then do an assessment of whether there’s been any
32:49
damage you don’t turn that over to some rabid doj attorney who thinks oh I can
32:58
use this to get Donald Trump and then let him go Hog Wild without any respect
33:03
to his own ethics and so the manner in which this
33:09
case was approached from the beginning was overly
33:14
antagonistic and designed to cause him to dig in his heels and in the absence
33:20
of evidence create an appearance of
33:25
non-compliance now everything that from the time period that I was involved in fits exactly what
33:34
I just described yes there was a subpoena yes there was a certification
33:41
didn’t say that he turned over all classified records what it said is we’ve conducted a diligence search and all
33:47
responsive records are enclosed let me say that again we
33:53
conducted a diligent search and all responsive records are are enclosed it doesn’t say everything’s been turned
34:00
over it says we searched everything we found here it is they wanted more time to do the
34:09
search and doj refused to give them more time to do the search they wanted you
34:16
know in later searches we invited doj to come with
34:24
us really yes did they no no when they wanted us to
34:31
search Trump Tower Bedminster we invited them send your FBI
34:39
agents with us to do the search they
34:46
refused it is and I believe that the reason that they refused is because we
34:52
were trying to show them that we had nothing to hide and if they had sent the FBI along
34:57
with us it would have given the appearance of
35:03
cooperation contrast this to the search they did in
35:11
Delaware I I I don’t
35:16
look I’m trying to collect my thoughts here I mean from from the research I
35:23
done it seems like they are claiming that there were nuclear codes in these classified documents and and secrets to
35:31
military weapons inside these documents and
35:37
so we kind of already covered it but what if if if there are nuclear codes in
35:43
in in information that is compromising some of the top weapons
35:49
that the US military has in their inventory then then why wouldn’t the FBI
35:57
CIA whoever why would they not want to accompany you to recover those codes or
36:03
the information on those weapons they they just left it up to the legal team to rumage around
36:13
marago for for nuclear codes correct in any other circumstance so first of all I
36:20
mean if you lose a weapon right a pistol yeah in the military everything shuts
36:26
down until that is recovered correct everything all operations all everything
36:34
shuts down to find a pistol M and we have nuclear codes supposedly that are
36:40
out there where are they coming up with this if it’s so nuclear codes I never saw any evidence of that you know that
36:46
that to me is something that was just told to the media to make it sound worse MH um but you know here’s what I did
36:55
see let’s talk about how they got out first because that that’s that’s
37:01
important there’s a big difference between somebody
37:06
stealing classified information so that they could put it on Wikileaks and they can give it to Russia and they can you
37:14
know do all these other things with it and what happened here because what happened here
37:20
is the White House has horrible document management
37:28
procedures now I didn’t say the Trump White House I said the White House in
37:34
general every Administration they do not follow the same standards that we followed in the
37:41
military they do not follow the same standards that the intelligence Community follows they have documents outside of a
37:48
skiff on desks moving around you have you know there was that
37:55
picture of uh you know during the Obama Administration where you have a room full of reporters and Joe Biden is
38:02
standing in the back with a classified folder in his hand they don’t treat documents the same
38:09
way in the White House that they do in the rest of the government and what that results in is an
38:16
intermingling of classified and unclassified documents and at the end of every
38:23
Administration when they pack up all of the documents the National
38:30
Archives picks up straight from the White House and what the National Archives
38:37
does is it rents a facility in the city where the future Presidential Library is
38:43
expected to be built which also happens to be wherever the president has decided to go move to
38:51
so you know Ronald Reagan leaves he moves to California National Archives gets a
38:57
facility in California near his house they put all of his documents
39:03
there they’ve done this presidential records Act was signed into law by Jimmy Carter it didn’t apply to Jimmy Carter
39:10
it applied from to everybody from Ragan forward so starting with Reagan every
39:16
single president they got a facility where that President moved to and put all the documents
39:23
there except for Obama they got a fac fac in Chicago for him and then he decided to stay in DC
39:30
anyway um president Trump is the first person that they said no we’re not
39:38
getting any facility for him at all and so what happened is when he left
39:47
office was it more chaotic than any other turnover yeah it was a lot more
39:55
because of a whole bunch bunch of things not the least of which being the election
40:01
contest also when you look from Reagan
40:07
forward how many one-term presidents do you
40:13
have is that it George HW Bush was the
40:19
only person other than Trump subject to the presidential records act who did not
40:26
have four years notice of the exact date that he was going to be
40:33
departing that’s an interesting take so really up until January 6th he believed
40:41
there’s likelihood that he was going to stay there so January 7th is when the
40:47
transition really happens National Archives is not going
40:52
to get a facility down in Florida and so all the documents get boxed up and they
40:59
all go to Florida there were you know the the famous pictures of the boxes all you
41:06
know on the driveway outside the White House being you know put into trucks being moved by GSA General Services
41:13
administration US government and the archivist is sitting there saying yes that picture was very
41:20
disturbing because you know I realized that those were you know National Archives uh or Nara um which is National
41:29
Archives and Records Administration those are narrow records that are going down to
41:34
Florida he didn’t say anything at the time had anybody asked president Trump
41:41
hey would you like us to you know hold on to these and you know we’ll put them in a facility there he’d have been fine
41:48
with it but the reality is everything got boxed up everything got moved down there the first time since President
41:55
Carter that a president has all the boxes moved to his
42:03
house and Nara knew because they have essentially four
42:09
Decades of data on this that every single Administration the boxes are co-mingled
42:17
with classified documents every single one we had had a
42:24
conversation also about what those class classified documents actually look like
42:29
and I think it would be important for you to explain what
42:34
kind of classified documents were in those boxes we’re not talking about
42:39
nuclear codes we’re talking about briefings we’re talking about I’ve gone
42:47
through the boxes I went to the I spent a few days at the National Archives and I went through all those boxes
42:53
myself which are a fascinating archaological iCal dig into the presidency by date and so you see on
43:00
each date here are the DAT the newspapers that he read that day um here
43:05
are you know his daily schedules here’s all the the phone messages that he
43:11
got here’s the classified document and a lot of those classified documents fit
43:17
with the schedule because you see on the schedule you have a phone call this
43:22
afternoon with President you know whoever of foreign country and then right after that is you
43:31
here’s the briefing sheet classified briefing sheet on all the questions we would like you to ask this foreign
43:39
leader and I’ll give you I’ll give you an example that everybody’s seen okay from the impeachment
43:47
proceeding when he had the phone call with President zalinski of Ukraine and Alexander vinman prepared
43:56
prepared for him the script of these are the questions we’d like you to ask uh
44:01
zalinski that script is
44:06
classified but the moment that you read it on the phone to the president of the
44:14
Ukraine it’s not a secret anymore and you know in the impeachment
44:21
proceedings we went through all this stuff because you know obviously vinman was upset that he had gone off of his
44:26
script and you know asked other questions but that document that’s
44:32
really what we’re talking about here that’s the majority of what these you know so-called classified documents are
44:38
it schedules things that are um highly classified at the
44:44
time tomorrow we’re going to fly to Afghanistan to have a surprise
44:50
Thanksgiving dinner with the troops very classified really don’t want
44:55
the Taliban and the al-Qaeda and everybody to know that tomorrow the
45:01
biggest juiciest Target in the world is going to be flying right over there airspace mhm but the moment that he
45:08
walks out into the mess hall with hundreds of troops and a bunch of TV
45:13
cameras it ain’t secret anymore yeah and so that but but the the schedule is
45:21
still marked classified correct and so these are the type of classified documents
45:27
that they’re recovering where did they come up with the where did they come up with the nuclear codes is that just a
45:35
Flatout conspiracy as far as I can tell that is a Flatout lie that was told to
45:42
the media to try and make things seem much worse than they were so I have another question you see all of these
45:47
counts of conspiracy charges of conspiracy uh for
Charges of conspiracy towards Trump.
45:55
the for for for for Trump and and his uh and the other people that got indicted
46:02
so couldn’t they couldn’t they flip the script and Sue whoever leaked that with
46:10
conspiracy if it’s not true you don’t know who did it though
46:16
that’s the problem well I mean if you would have to make an investigation just like they’re
46:21
making on right but ultimately ultimately you have to convince a journalist to give up his
46:29
Source I have a couple of strategies
46:35
don’t but so that wouldn’t work but you know one
46:40
of the things to remember here you talk about how there’s you know 40 counts or something down there one one other
46:45
question I’m sorry I mean we’re joking around you would have to get a journalist to give up his Source well if
46:51
he doesn’t give up his Source then I C then then couldn’t you say it just came from him
46:57
I mean because that’s just passing the buck because then that then then the source could say oh well I got it from
47:02
another source I mean it’s either who did you get the information from or it’s you I mean well what we’re talking about
47:10
here is a defamation claim MH um civil defamation claim and you know journalist
47:16
is not going to be liable for that if that’s what A source told them so you’re not going to be able to really get the
47:22
journalist unless you can show that they acted with Rec disregard for the
47:28
truth um so that you’re not really going to have any leverage okay in that way um
47:35
and ultimately trying to get a journalist to reveal their source as part of a civil defamation
47:41
claim um it’s just not going to happen it’s not going to happen so it’s it it
47:47
is unfortunately one of the features of these leak investigations that it just
47:52
you’re never going to get there and even there you know president Trump has a major problem with filing
48:00
any type of defamation claim to begin with because yes when you put out nuclear
48:08
codes that sounds really bad uhuh did it change anybody’s
48:16
mind did any Trump supporters say yeah it’s okay he had classified
48:22
that whoa one of them is nuclear codes okay well now I don’t like anymore now I’m going to vote for Biden
48:30
no it the country is so polarized already at this point that I don’t think
48:38
that President Trump could ever have a viable defamation claim because anybody
48:44
who puts out knowingly false information about him is just going to have the
48:50
people that hate [Music] him have you know more ammunition for or
48:56
why they hate him and the people that like him are just going to say that’s
49:01
fake anyway so it’s not going to change anybody’s opinion and that that is a requirement really in a defamation
49:07
claims you have to it has to be something that is damaging to your reputation in a way that it changes
49:13
people’s opinion of you so I don’t think that’s going to get
49:19
anywhere okay but one interesting point you know when you bring up the 40 counts
49:25
each each one of those counts is an individual document so now go back and take a look
49:32
at it where they say that they found hundreds of documents the vast majority of them they
49:38
didn’t charge why is that because the vast majority of them were over classified in
49:46
my opinion it’s not about willful retention of classified information is about willful retention of National
49:52
Defense information meaning that the uh this information if divulged would be
49:58
damaging to National Security and having a daily schedule in your house in
50:05
2022 that says in 2019 we’re going to fly to Afghanistan is not National Defense
50:12
information it may not have been properly Declassified but at present it shouldn’t
50:18
be classified it should be Declassified and so classification has no bearing on this
50:26
case whatsoever classification is somebody’s opinion as to whether
50:32
something constitutes National Defense information MH and so if it’s people
50:38
have been acquitted for possessing top secret documents that were over classified
50:44
people have been convicted for possessing unclassified documents that should have been
50:50
classified so classification doesn’t really matter but the vast majority of those
50:56
documents they didn’t charge and I believe because the vast majority of those
51:03
documents didn’t constitute National Defense information what do you think the outcome of this is going to be I’ll tell
51:10
you this is the one that probably um I think poses the greatest threat to
51:17
him and specifically because of the whole story of um of obstruction not the
51:25
leading of the video that’s um that’s kind of silly but the the story about
51:31
having Walt NADA move the boxes the night before um Evan goes in to do the
51:38
search um that story when I read that in the indictment that was not something
51:44
I’d ever heard before that was not something that was consistent with anything that I knew about during my
51:50
year of representing him um if
51:56
true if backed by evidence that’s the
52:01
count that I think he would have difficulty overturning on an
52:07
appeal if true the flip side of that is they’re claiming that they have video of Walt
52:14
moving all these boxes they’ve put screenshots of
52:19
everything in there they have pictures of the boxes sitting on the stage the boxes sitting in the bathroom the boxes
52:24
sitting on the truck the box is sitting in the basement the single most damning photo
52:31
that you could possibly have is pictures of Walt moving 60 boxes the night before you know time stamped you know late the
52:37
night before Evan corkin shows up to do a search that screenshots not in
52:44
there when they did their press conference they didn’t play that video for anybody think about anytime you’ve
52:51
seen a prosecutor do a press conference of we just arrested this bankrupt and they’re going to show you the video of
52:56
the bank robber you running out of the bank and everything that
53:03
video would be the single most damning piece of evidence they claim that they
53:09
have why haven’t we seen it do you think they’re withholding or
53:15
do you think it’s a flat out lie I don’t know that’s the problem why would they
53:21
withhold I don’t know this team the the mara Lago
53:27
team of prosecutors they don’t act like normal
53:33
prosecutors they don’t act like normal ethical strategic
53:40
prosecutors they did a whole bunch of stuff throughout that whole case that we would just sit there and scratch our
53:47
heads at and say are these people really working for doj like what how how do they not
53:56
understand basic principles so I really don’t
54:02
know I really don’t know but that piece of the indictment to
54:08
me is is going to be the most damning because ultimately the will for
54:14
retention they’re going to have difficulty showing whether it is National Defense information they’re going to have difficulty showing that he
54:20
did willfully retain it um and ultimately
54:27
it was brought there legally it
54:33
was this is an issue of document management
54:38
procedures and had in in the first instance If instead of somebody from doj
54:46
instead of sending you know J brat and the Keystone Cops they had sent somebody
54:51
from the office of the Director of National Intelligence to say say nar has informed us that there may be a spillage
54:58
of classified documents we’d like to work together to make sure that we you know protect you know our nation’s
55:04
secrets and everything if they had done that you know what president Trump would have
55:09
done he was go ahead please please he well help him
55:21
out but they didn’t do that so that’s that’s the problem
55:28
what is he facing there again that’s you know worst case
55:33
scenario it’s that one I think um I didn’t look up the time on those
55:42
um several years from my understanding you had a
You had a role in searching Trump tower.
55:47
role in searching Trump Tower do would you like to go into that sure
55:53
sure we did um a lot of sub subsequent
55:58
searches and these were done at the request of doj uh they thought that
56:03
there were more documents out there and that you know they had this theory that you know he was you know playing a shell
56:09
game of moving documents back and forth between Bedminster marago Trump Tower um
56:17
and so we searched you know I hired a team of um of contractors to do the
56:23
search you know we invited the FBI to tag along the FBI refused um you know one of my colleagues
56:30
had overseen the search at Bedminster where they found nothing um and ultimately I personally
56:38
oversaw the search at Trump Tower uh which was definitely one of those you
56:45
know things that I never expected to ever be doing in my life you know
56:50
growing up you know in you know right outside of New York City and then starting my legal career career as a New
56:56
York City criminal defense attorney go search Trump Tower for classified documents was not one of those tasks
57:02
that I ever envisioned being on my to-do list um but we did we did and yeah
57:13
really interesting experience you know beautiful building um you know very you know
57:20
beautiful spaces you know we started in the office area uh
57:25
um and he’s got this phenomenal office you know corner office
57:30
with the panoramic views of Central Park and everything um and you then we you know
57:38
when we finished searching there we we went through all of his records that had you know real estate
57:45
deals going back to the 70s um and it was we were sitting there
57:52
laughing like this is silly that were searching this place because there’s nothing
57:57
here post 2016 cuz when he was elected he
58:04
moved and everything is like almost Frozen in time there you know went up to
58:10
the apartment which was stunning apartment um you searched all around
58:18
um we were in the dining room and the guy who was taking us around he pointed
58:25
up and he said how you like that chandelier beautiful chandelier he’s like do you see it
58:31
moving and you could the chandelier was just ever so slightly swaying back and
58:36
forth like yeah why is that he says Chandelier’s not moving the building is
58:42
moving the chandelier swinging because of that because those big buildings they
58:49
Flex wow so you know we went through the whole place place and quite frankly
58:59
halfway through I started to feel um very uncomfortable because like especially
59:05
when we got to the bedroom and stuff like that it’s a very personal
59:11
space and the fact that I’m having to Search
59:17
Donald Trump’s closet for classified documents was just
59:24
if felt very wrong to me it felt like it was
59:30
very invasive uh and [Music]
59:36
um obviously I I appreciate that he trusted you know me and my team you know
59:42
to do that and it’s obviously better for us to do that than for the FBI to do it
59:47
um but um going through that place it was it
59:53
was totally Frozen in time in 2016 wow you know found nothing no
1:00:01
nothing nothing at all is there anything that we’re not covering when it
1:00:08
comes to the classified documents case I mean those are the big things
1:00:13
yeah it’s it’s just the obstruction
1:00:19
allegation if proven is the biggest danger to him
1:00:25
not the documents themselves okay let’s take a quick break when we
1:00:31
come back we will get to the last one New York New York stormmy Daniels oh
1:00:38
yeah which I thought was done but uh I guess not didn’t we
1:00:45
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New York “Stormy Daniels”
1:03:36
off Tim we’re back from the break this is the last one so we got the hush money
1:03:43
case Stormy Daniels I thought this was done a long time ago to be honest with it when I started doing the research and
1:03:50
I saw this come up I I was uh yeah I thought it was I thought this was
1:03:56
settled it was no didn’t the attorney go down yeah that’s what I thought
1:04:03
so it’s such a bizarre thing and just I think they called it the zombie case
1:04:08
even because it just came back from the dead you know it shouldn’t have ever been a criminal case to begin with um
1:04:16
you know Michael Cohen is a for how he wrote up that settlement
1:04:21
agreement and you know it should have never come back to life let alone come
1:04:28
back to life is a criminal case and it was closed the pro the prosecutor who was
1:04:35
brought in to do the case was upset he wrote a book about it about you know why
1:04:40
he was upset that they didn’t do it and it was all in history and then all
1:04:47
of a sudden surprise here’s here it is back again and and and in the most
1:04:54
legally incompetent form possible it so March 2023 I Manhattan
1:05:02
grand jury voted to indict Trump 34 accounts of violating a New York law on corporate recordkeeping Trump turned
1:05:09
himself into authorities was processed as a criminal defendant pleaded not guilty and was released without having
1:05:16
to post bail trial is scheduled for March 25th 2024 34 counts on new New York penal law
1:05:25
falsifying business records in the first degree Char Trump charged with crimes in
1:05:30
the investigation prosecutors would likely argue that Daniel’s payoff constituted an illegal contribution to
1:05:38
Trump’s campaign a violation of either state or federal election law that Trump
1:05:44
furthered by falsifying his company’s
1:05:50
records the way I understand this is is actually I don’t understand this but
1:05:58
um falsifying business records labeling the payoff is a legal
1:06:08
expense from the campaign is that am I correct so what they did here was
1:06:16
Michael Cohen decided to pay her personally and then he was to be
1:06:23
reimbursed by Trump and so these are checks to Michael
1:06:28
Cohen that are then booked as you know legal expenses M um did he write the checks him himself
1:06:37
I don’t think so but one of the interesting things here is that New York
1:06:42
State loves to take you know a single count and turn
1:06:49
it into many counts so when you say about how there’s 30 some accounts
1:06:54
really what that is every check is a separate count and then every you know
1:07:03
memo entry in the checkbook is a separate count so for each check there’s two
1:07:08
counts yeah and they do this with a lot of things I mean I remember years ago I
1:07:14
had a um the New York State version of RICO case it was a a more traditional
1:07:21
you know Tian organized crime you know gambling and lone shark in case and I go
1:07:27
in and they hand me the indictment it’s this thick and I start to look into I’m like
1:07:32
my God this is the biggest indictment I’ve ever seen and it turns out they took every
1:07:39
bet and charge them all of separate counts you know over the course of you
1:07:45
know a couple of years that they were running a sports book it’s like every bet on football games was a separate
1:07:51
count it was the most incomprehensibly you know stupid waste of trees
1:07:58
ever and but that’s what they do and that’s what they did here is they’re
1:08:04
taking really it’s just one transaction that was paid out in a
1:08:09
couple in a few different checks and they you expand it out like that okay so
1:08:16
the feds don’t do that the feds would have charged this as a one count indictment probably okay uh maybe two or
1:08:24
three but wouldn’t it be this you know 30 some odd is the federal government
1:08:29
Behind These State ones I mean are they coaching them like the Geor I don’t know I’ve heard that
1:08:36
rumored um I haven’t seen it so I’m not going to give it oxygen one way or the other I
1:08:43
I don’t know yeah I I have heard that though but
1:08:48
yes so ultimately what we’re talking about here is there is this
1:08:54
you know she made an allegation um Michael Cohen worked out a deal to pay her off he wrote it up
1:09:05
stupidly and yeah and she got paid there was an NDA she wasn’t allowed to talk
1:09:11
about it and she violated it um and now they’re trying to say that the payment
1:09:17
was you know some kind of campaign contribution the campaign argument I think Falls because that’s already been
1:09:24
tried in other circumstances John Edwards for example and paying off
1:09:31
somebody to keep a um an extra maral Affair
1:09:36
silent um is not a campaign thing you know campaign expenses have to be
1:09:43
something that’s purely for the campaign the can’t beign any you know personal
1:09:48
you know piece to it and so if he’s also interested in having her not tell the
1:09:54
world because it would hurt business marriage Etc then it’s not really a campaign
1:10:00
Finance issue MH which is exactly what happened with John Edwards
1:10:07
so I don’t think that they’re going to get there with that um I think that they have statute
1:10:14
limitations problems because this thing happened so many years ago and they’re
1:10:20
they’re trying to extend the statute of limitations based on the idea that well we can extend it
1:10:26
because he spent all that time in dayc so he was outside of New York so I think
1:10:32
that they could potentially have problems with that um but just the
1:10:38
Baseline of this thing just doesn’t doesn’t doesn’t make
1:10:44
sense I of all the indictments this is far and above the weakest really oh
1:10:52
yeah how do you you think all these I mean they all came in 4 and 1/2 months
1:10:57
obviously there was some kind of I mean this was when did this happen no that was that was that was May
1:11:05
I think that I mean what what initially this was before he was
1:11:10
president yeah back in like 2015 201 so it I mean somebody’s definitely convoluting all of this and and
1:11:17
coordinating correct you don’t get a 91 felony counts in four different states
1:11:25
in 4 and a half months I don’t know I mean obviously the the Florida and DC
1:11:31
cases are connected because it’s the same you know the same boss at doj on
1:11:36
both of those cases so th those two are obviously connected the other two quite frankly strike me as more of um you know
1:11:44
local prosecutors that are trying to W ride the wave okay um you
1:11:50
know they’re trying to jump on the bandw maybe there’s some coordination but I doubt it because my personal opinion is
1:11:58
that there’s not the coordination because first of all I don’t think the federal government has any legitimate
1:12:03
interest in Alvin brag bringing a weak
1:12:09
case that is almost certainly going to get thrown out okay I don’t think the
1:12:15
federal government has any interest in Fanny Willis bringing a case that directly contradicts the federal
1:12:22
prosecutors Theory their case and you know and Sidelines a whole bunch of their Witnesses so I don’t really see
1:12:30
that coordination going on at least with the government okay um you know are
1:12:36
there possible coordination with you know fundraisers and things like that U
1:12:42
because of these two you know elected District Attorneys maybe I don’t know
1:12:47
but it definitely struck me as more of a you know want to jump on the B wagon oh
1:12:54
wait we we indicted him too yeah I mean they definitely if anything they’re definitely getting a ton of publicity
1:13:01
out of it sure you know but um okay where do you think this is heading
1:13:09
dismissal dismissal relatively soon I I would think it should be heading for
1:13:14
dismissal um same with the others I mean this one is a pretty legally incompetent
1:13:20
Theory so if this one doesn’t get dismissed um yeah I think it would get overturned
1:13:26
by on appeal oh good is there anything we’re missing that with the storman
1:13:31
Daniels case no that’s I mean that’s the outline of it it’s just it’s it’s a weak
1:13:38
case weak case being brought for nakedly political
1:13:43
purposes so with you wrapping up the interview you’re one of the four lead
1:13:50
attorneys on this at the beginning you have more insight into all of this
In your opinion is this political persecution?
1:13:56
than anybody else in your
1:14:01
opinion is this political prosecution that we’re seeing is this going to become the
1:14:08
norm I believe that it is politically motivated I think certainly the two
1:14:14
state prosecutions are are without a doubt politically motivated I think that
1:14:19
the federal prosecutions um are because of the disparate treatment of
1:14:27
him to other you know similarly situated defendants uh I do see politics involved
1:14:34
there and and I think that you know I don’t like to be the guy saying oh it’s
1:14:39
a it’s a political Witch Hunt you I I hate I don’t like using the word Witch Hunt at
1:14:45
all but here’s the thing when they go in and they try to
1:14:51
demand a ludic iously speedy trial nakedly for the purpose of getting
1:14:58
it done before the election you feed that
1:15:05
narrative you know if you are engaging in litigation
1:15:11
strategies that are so obviously intended to be timed related to the
1:15:17
election you feed The credibility of those that say that it’s a political WI
1:15:23
hunt that it’s election interference if and I look at this you I
1:15:30
have a different perspective on these things not only because of my personal prior personal involvement but also
1:15:36
because I spend a career working in the Federal Criminal Justice world and so
1:15:43
when I look at the manner in which these prosecutors are acting as compared to
1:15:50
every other case that it’s it’s that you know Delta
1:15:56
of the treatment that supports you know the conclusion that is being done for
1:16:03
political purposes are there any charges that you
1:16:09
believe may be valid a legitimate concern I think that
1:16:15
the most legitimate concern is the obstruction counts in
1:16:21
Florida if everything that’s in the indictment is
1:16:27
true if big if I’ve obviously had a lot of success in my career going in and winning cases
1:16:34
where the things that they put in the indictment turn out not to be true so I don’t believe everything that doj writes into
1:16:42
an indictment okay but if if all of the allegations if all if
1:16:48
everything in all of these indictments were true
1:16:54
I think that the obstruction in Florida is his single greatest
1:17:00
threat my next concern is fair
1:17:07
trial the jury good luck youve exactly you I mean
1:17:13
I remember when I interviewed Eddie Gallagher he talked extensively about
1:17:19
how they tried to well they didn’t try they did pack the jury
1:17:26
is there any is there even any hope that they will have a a a fair trial with a
1:17:35
legitimate jury and how would you even I mean with
1:17:40
the I’ll ask that question later you know here’s the problem with
1:17:49
that that is an issue for any defendant in a high-profile
1:17:56
case um and certainly any politically charged
1:18:01
case can you find jurors who will be fair
1:18:07
sure sure I mean the Georgia grand jury was not unanimous there were people in
1:18:12
there that thought he should not be indicted um I’m sure that the grand jury
1:18:17
in in DC also was not unanimous um the Florida Cas obviously
1:18:23
he’s going to be tried in the jurisdiction where the jury pool has a lot more people that voted for him than
1:18:29
against him ultimately as a trial lawyer what I
1:18:35
want are jurors who are going to keep an open mind that haven’t prejudged the
1:18:42
case given the amount of publicity in these cases I think that’s going to be
1:18:47
very difficult to find and that’s not just the Trump thing you know I think that Hunter Biden’s
1:18:54
going to have the same problem uh Bob Menendez to a certain extent is going to have the same
1:19:00
problem it’s the reason why back in 2016 when Jim Comey came out and said you
1:19:07
know no reasonable prosecutor would bring the case against Hillary Clinton I
1:19:12
agreed with him different reasons but I agree with his
1:19:17
conclusion because I believed there’s no way you’re going to be able to pick a
1:19:24
fair and impartial jury to try you know USV
1:19:30
Clinton because everybody has already been so saturated with the stuff that
1:19:35
they’re going to have their opinions already made up that’s what I was that was actually my next question you know
1:19:42
that’s about Hillary Clinton about Trump yeah it’s you can’t find the
1:19:49
jury I don’t think that’s not going to bring their own you know baggage yeah I
1:19:56
mean look I I tried a case years ago very different circumstances I tried the case of the uh the three guys who uh
1:20:04
base jumped off of the top of one World Trade Center and it was big news in New York at the time uh the GoPro video
1:20:11
footage was you know amazing it got millions of views on on
1:20:16
YouTube and when the jury came in and the judge you know said hey has
1:20:23
anybody heard of this case before we lost half the panel right
1:20:29
there because half the panel stood up and they got in line and they said yes I’ve I’ve heard of this case um have you
1:20:37
formed an opinion of this case oh yeah what they did was freaking awesome and I’m sitting there watching
1:20:43
all my best jurors leave but um that’s the point is that I lost half
1:20:52
the juror in that case if you apply the same standard to Donald
1:20:58
Trump by the way same same judge tried that case that has the uh the Manhattan
1:21:03
case for Trump if you apply that same standard of hey jurs how many of you
1:21:09
have heard of this case everybody’s out
Everything is politically charged in the country.
1:21:15
yeah I don’t it’s to to me it seems impossible I mean every everything is
1:21:21
politically charged in this country at this point you’re either prot Trump or anti-trump right
1:21:30
you know there doesn’t seem to be any middle ground and so you know when I’m
1:21:36
talking about a fair trial I’m I’m not just talking about a panel of
1:21:43
anti-trump jurors I’m talking about prot Trump as well and and I mean where where would you even begin to find neutral
1:21:51
jurors with these with this defendant I don’t think you can yeah do you think they’ll
1:21:58
try to pack the jury well look I mean the way the juries
1:22:05
get selected there’s not that much you can really do about it you know people are randomly selected based on their
1:22:11
driver’s license registration and um there’s a process so it’s
1:22:19
different in a military jury because is there The convening Authority picks the
1:22:25
panel that you start from but in a civilian system
1:22:31
um the jury is already packed based on bringing the case in a
1:22:36
jurisdiction that is you know so uh polarized you know if the Georgia case
1:22:42
gets removed to Federal Court then you have a much wider jury pool and so you
1:22:48
would have a jury pool that goes into other counties that did vote for Trump for
1:22:54
example uh but you have to start with the idea that you if you have a fton
1:23:00
County jury then you know how many votes did he get in that county that’s
1:23:06
probably the percentage you got um which doesn’t mean 100% you know I don’t know what the
1:23:13
numbers were there but even if even if uh Biden won by 70% that means 30% of your potential
1:23:21
jurors V for Trump and ultimately you need a unanimous verdict
1:23:29
to convict somebody and so if you have a third of
1:23:34
your you know of your jurors so out of 12 four you 8 to four assume that the
1:23:42
jurors ignore all the evidence and they just vote based on who they voted for in
1:23:48
the election mhm even there you go going have
1:23:53
difficulty cuz you’re going to have an 8 to4
1:23:59
verdict interesting it’s going to be really interesting to see how this all plays
1:24:05
out are you worried for the country I
1:24:10
am and yet I’m I’m not um you know all I think that all of the
1:24:18
calls for oh this is the greatest threat to democracy and you know we’ve never
1:24:23
had a situation like this before I think those are somewhat overblown um and I think that those are
1:24:30
primarily being pushed by people that have not studied our own history because
1:24:37
we have had plenty of strife in this country and
1:24:43
survived is this next couple of years going to be utter chaos
1:24:50
yes could it you know devolve into into something worse yes is it going to be
1:24:58
the end of our country I don’t believe so you know I I study history and I look
1:25:05
at um yeah I love reading books about you know historical figures and when you
1:25:12
read them especially if you read them today you’re going to pick out interesting things in those books um the
1:25:20
parallel what you see today and so you see that the the
1:25:26
Discord here is really that much different from a lot of the Discord that happened you know in the late 1700s
1:25:34
early 1800s not really is it really that much worse than
1:25:41
when half the country decided to seced and we started shooting each
1:25:48
other no I don’t think it’s that
1:25:53
bad I think the difference is I think the biggest risk is back
1:26:00
then as bad as it was people didn’t know about it because we didn’t have Twitter
1:26:07
and Fox News and CNN and all these other things news traveled at the speed of a
1:26:20
horse we had a very interesting conversation in dinner last night on
1:26:26
overcorrection yeah and how the pendulum is swinging and how you kind of had mentioned that this
1:26:33
had started with Obama I think that there’s an element of that I
1:26:39
mean you know each time you have the pendulum
1:26:44
swing um you know Obama you know kind of swung the pendulum to one side which which you
1:26:52
know brought the conditions that would bring Trump to office as it swings over to the other
1:26:58
side and then it goes way over in the reaction to
1:27:04
Trump and I think one of the interesting things is
1:27:09
Trump one of his um strengths or weaknesses depending how
1:27:15
you look at it is he brings out extreme positions from his opponents
1:27:23
and so if you look at for example um
1:27:29
immigration historically there’s been a debate about immigration and if you go back and watch um in fact
1:27:39
I I invite you go back and watch the 1995 State of the Union Address by Bill
1:27:46
Clinton and watch the part where he’s talking about immigration
1:27:52
and when you watch that you’re going to sit there and shake your head and say my God I forgot that Bill Clinton was a republican because his talking points
1:27:59
aren’t that much substantively different than Trump’s on reducing illegal immigration
1:28:09
building a wall you know we’re a nation of immigrants but we’re a nation of laws
1:28:15
things like that and yet then when Trump you know pushes this whole you know build the
1:28:24
wall you then get you know the back swing of well if Trump wants to build
1:28:29
the wall then we want open borders and then you have a situation
1:28:35
like you have now this country and in fact I think the
1:28:41
world um you know politics suffers from you
1:28:46
know abuse corruption overcorrection and all ultimately
1:28:53
getting back to um you know kind of an equilibrium you the same is true of you
1:29:00
know bail reform I think I told you about this last night bail
1:29:07
reform everybody’s talking about how you know New York has gone and a lot of these states have gone with the Noh bail
1:29:13
reform where you know nobody gets held in pre-trial confinement and all these people are out on the street and they’re
1:29:19
killing cops and and all the everything’s terrible and yet I look at it and I
1:29:25
say that is an overcorrection of a legitimate problem because when I started out my
1:29:32
career in New York City they were jailing people prec conviction for things that they did not
1:29:39
need to be jailed for they weren’t dangerous to the community they weren’t risk of flight they were putting them in
1:29:45
jail to make it more difficult to defend themselves and so like I had a guy once
1:29:52
he was in Riker’s Island his case primarily consisted of
1:29:57
audio recordings you know we had hundreds of hours of audio
1:30:03
recordings he wasn’t allowed to have a computer so under the way that the
1:30:11
system was set up the first time he’s allowed to hear any of the evidence
1:30:16
against him is when it’s played for the jury
1:30:22
and this is a guy that we knew for two years he was under investigation we knew
1:30:28
it and about once a week I call up the prosecutor and say Hey you want my guy to surrender you know where we at are
1:30:36
you you ready to charge him you want me to bring him in no no not this week come again next week they finally get to the point where
1:30:43
they want to charge him and they show up at his house 5:30 in the
1:30:49
morning he always woke up at 4:00 in the morning cuz he knew that they would do this and so he would go out for a walk
1:30:55
and so when they showed up he’s sitting on his porch drinking coffee they show up with the SWAT team and he’s sitting
1:31:01
there oh hi guys hold on a second I’ll be right down he finishes his coffee walks down holds his hands out 5 hours
1:31:09
later we’re in front of a judge he must be held in pre-ra confinement he is a
1:31:14
risk of flight if we don’t hold him he’s going to disappear he look wait a minute
1:31:21
we’ve been talking for 2 years and sure enough the judge put him
1:31:27
on marker’s island where he couldn’t review any of the discovery against him that’s just one example of
1:31:35
many where Bale was an abusive system
1:31:40
that was robbing people of their constitutional rights it was undermining their fundamental right to be able to
1:31:45
defend themselves and it needed to be corrected but no cash bail is a massive
1:31:56
overcorrection and so now they’re going to have to swing the pendulum back and eventually we’re going to get to an equilibrium and once you reach the
1:32:03
equilibrium everything’s going to be fine for a while until the institutional memory
1:32:10
Fades and then it will fall off again and then you’ll be back in the
1:32:18
pendulum he got a great way of relating things back to his to them that’s right
1:32:24
you do a phenomenal job at it well I just want to say thank you for
1:32:30
coming and um unpacking all of these indictments and um I just you know
1:32:39
I think people don’t understand what this is all about I didn’t and um you
1:32:46
really you did you just did a great job of explaining everything and thank you for coming down to do that well than
1:32:51
thank you thank you for giving me the opportunity you’re welcome one last question
If they asked you back on the team would you go?
1:32:58
sure if they wanted you back on that legal team would you
1:33:04
go I would have some conditions um the answer is yes I would consider going
1:33:12
back but there would be certain conditions based on my past experience that I would want to make sure that
1:33:19
um certain barri and personalities are removed fair
1:33:26
enough but other other than that I mean the reason why I took the case on
1:33:32
in the first place is unchanged it’s an important case it’s it’s you know very you know
1:33:41
consequential issues to this country and you know let’s be honest I
1:33:48
didn’t become a trial lawyer because I wanted to just do a volume DWI practice
1:33:53
you I like getting into the biggest loudest fights and this is one of
1:33:58
them but I would just need to be have the conditions right to where I could
3 guest recommendations.
1:34:04
actually fight it definitely understandable I need three
1:34:09
recommendations from you on who do you think would be good on the show who
1:34:15
would you like to see here so the first one uh we talked about
1:34:22
before and I’ve I’ve I think I’ve already connected you with them is the former Governor of Missouri Eric
1:34:29
Rens um I think that he’d be a really interesting guest relevant to a lot of
1:34:34
the things we’re talking about here because uh he as sitting
1:34:40
Governor uh was indicted for a crime he did not commit by a you know politically
1:34:48
um you know elected district attorney he was forced to resign as governor and
1:34:55
then after he resigned it came out that the lead investigator ended up pleading
1:35:00
guilty to tampering with evidence and the prosecutor also pleaded guilty to an
1:35:07
ethics violation for presenting false evidence and ultimately she had to step
1:35:13
down but none of that puts him back in office you know the political aim of
1:35:21
that Pro prosecution have been fulfilled um and he’s also just a really
1:35:26
interesting and Brilliant guy you know former seal as well so I think you would enjoy uh and your audience would enjoy
1:35:32
talking to him perfect uh the second one is um a good friend of mine and and a
1:35:40
good client uh Tommy Vex so Tommy is a um he’s a heavy metal
1:35:48
musician um he doesn’t fit the graphic uh demographic for most heavy metal musicians he’s black he grew up in the
1:35:55
streets of Brooklyn he has a twin brother and his life story is the
1:36:01
perfect illustration of how personal choices uh affect where we end up cuz he
1:36:10
and his twin brother you know both grew up on the streets both got into a lot of trouble Tommy went straight and he went
1:36:18
sober his brother did not his brother is serving time in prison
1:36:24
right now for attempted murder of Tommy wow the sounds really interesting
1:36:31
Tommy because of his decision to go straight is a world touring rock star
1:36:41
and an incredible human being I think you would like him a lot perfect and the third one is actually
1:36:48
somebody that I I don’t know the first two are admittedly clients of mine uh the third one somebody I’ve never met
1:36:54
before I’d like to meet um Mike Simpson um I I recently read his book and have
1:37:01
been listening to his podcast uh really fascinating guy he started off as a
1:37:07
ranger uh then became a Green Beret enlisted uh and then went to medical
1:37:13
school you went from being an 18 Del to Special Forces medic to going to medical school and then went back um
1:37:22
to Special Operations as a physician uh to support the Special Operations troops
1:37:27
and now he’s retired from that and he’s um really focused on longevity um he just published a book uh
1:37:35
not too long ago called hon uh finding your Edge as a man over 40 um it’s
1:37:41
something I’ve been reading about how to you know find to my um diet and exercise
1:37:48
and and lifestyle um and he’s a fascinating podcast where he talks about a lot of
1:37:53
these things um so I think that he’s somebody else that you’d find very interesting so those are my three
1:38:00
recommendations thank you we’ll definitely look into them and uh and yes
1:38:05
you did connect me with Eric and I do I have had conversations with Mike so I
1:38:12
will uh and I know you’ll connect me with um Tommy absolutely perfect I never would have pictured you as a heavy metal
1:38:18
guy Tim you know one thing about Tommy um he used to be the frontman of a band
1:38:24
called the bad wolves um he uh he took over his temporarily frontman for Five
1:38:30
Finger Death Punch when their lead singer went into rehab he’s done so much to help so many you know musicians and
1:38:37
celebrities with substance abuse issues um and you know one of the
1:38:42
interesting stories about him is he was going to be doing a uh a duet with Dolores aeren of The Cranberries of a
1:38:50
redo of their famous song um zombie and the night before they were
1:38:56
supposed to record the duet she uh she died wow as a result of
1:39:05
I think she actually drowned but it was a it was an alcohol induced uh
1:39:11
death and so he went forward with the song which got millions of views it was
1:39:19
very very popular song but he donated 100% of the revenue or
1:39:24
the profits to her children that’s a hell of a guy so he is
1:39:31
he’s a guy he’s he’s a heavy metal musician with a deep
1:39:37
story perfect perfect well hopefully we’ll get him on yeah thank you for the
1:39:44
recommendations thank you brother I appreciate it thank
1:39:50
you [Music]
1:39:56
hey everybody I’m sha Ryan click here to subscribe to the Sha Ryan Show YouTube channel for the hottest and most
1:40:03
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1:40:10
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Tim Parlatore – Unpacking the Trump Indictments | SRS #89 Part II
Transcript