Transcript
[Music] welcome back to mind of the warrior everybody as always brought to to you by
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loyal mind of the warrior listener very happy to have on the podcast as a very
special guest uh here early in 2024 uh veteran attorney you probably
know him without knowing that you know him Tim parlor Tim brother welcome to the podcast thank you for having me DC
let’s talk a little bit about uh I everybody I make everybody live their childhood trauma so let’s uh talk a
little bit about uh about your upbringing what life was like for you growing up what led to your career in
the military ultimately led to you uh becoming a litigator and uh what your
path was like okay so I I grew up in New Jersey um you in a relatively Suburban
uh community of North and yeah I was a wrestler uh growing up and you it was
one of those things where I looked at a bunch of different career paths and ultimately you know I I really felt the
calling to join the military um I was you know thinking about enlisting in the
Marine Corps when uh one of my classmates uh her father who was a Naval Academy grab kind of grabbed me and he
said hey maybe you wanna maybe you want to consider this path over here so you
know that’s when I kind of turned my focus towards the service acmy um you I
applied to uh I applied to all of them and ended up choosing Naval
Academy uh and so I was there and you know really while I was there I was kind
of still trending towards the idea of being a marine uh but as an infantry
officer until um my junior year when had an
incident where my best friend uh got into a lot of trouble and he was facing
expulsion uh and he came to me and you know we sat there and we kind of figured out his defense you know put together um
kind of the structure of arguments based on the regulations and you know that’s when I kind of
realized you know what I might be an okay you know as an infantry officer but
I’d be a really good lawyer and so that’s that was really kind of the Catalyst for me of of changing my whole
career path and a my whole trajectory um towards becoming a lawyer
uh so you know I I chose to go Navy surface Warfare um because you know at the time
I was led to believe that was the fastest path to laterally transferring into the Jag core um that didn’t didn’t
turn out that way but um but I did enjoy my time as a service Warfare on USS
Normandy I got a missile Cruiser uh did two deployments uh and then ended up getting out or getting off active duty
anyway and I went to law School in New York City um so Brooklyn Law School uh I
was you know really trying to study to do criminal defense um that continued on
in the reserves while I was there and ended up um you know putting in a bunch
of applications to the Navy Jag Corp to try and get back on active duty and they uh they politely decline me each time
and so I ended up doing criminal defense in New York and you know ended up um
really working for some of the greats uh you know the old the old crew that did all the John Gotti
trials um you know which was yeah it was I was lucky because spring break of the
one L you know first year in law school happened to coincide with the trial of the so-called Mafia cops you know two
mypd detectives accused of Moonlighting as Hitmen and so I I just spent my whole
spring breakdown at the courthouse watching the trial wow and that kind of
you know got me in with that crew of lawyers and um you know I learned a lot
from them you know got a job working for Eddie Hayes when I got out of law school or while I was in law school uh and then
just kind of climbed up that ladder so uh fast forward you it’s it’s
uh since we’re talking about the mafia I guess I’ll use a mafia term you kind of made your bones so to speak you had made
your bones as a lawyer before that but you know I I think what uh probably ushered
you uh into uh being uh in the public eye was certainly your defense of of the
seal Eddie Gallagher tell us a little bit about that what uh how how was that connection made
is this you know is this he saw your face on a billboard and he called you are you are you saw the case unfolding
on television you’re like somebody’s got to reach somebody who somebody who knows the military needs to reach out to this
guy and do right by him was it a uh you know was there was there a mutual acquaintance involved what what led to
you being Eddie’s lawyer and also when the when you first got handed everything
for the case what were what were your first impressions of what the military
was doing and and and how how winnable did you see this case when you when you
first saw everything in front of you sure so yeah I I was aware of the case
from the from the media and you there is a small you know group of Civilian
lawyers that have done most of these types of cases and they are you know by and large retired JAG officers who you
know they they retired changed their clothes and kept doing the same thing you know just wearing a different uh
wearing a different jacket uh and the reality is none of them are very good in
my opinion um you there’s a couple of that are okay but you know the ones that
he had were kind of The Usual Suspects you know the ones that you know people always call um that they weren’t really
defending him very well in my opinion and so you know but I couldn’t really
get involved I you know there’s legal ethics you can’t you know solicit uh I just kind of sat back and watched and as
it turned out the family reached out to the former NYPD commissioner Bernie
Carrick and they were talking to him you know trying to get advice uh and Bernie
Carrick is a client of mine as well and so when he when he found out kind of what they were going through and how the
lawyers you know were treating them because you know that was a case that really needed to go to trial quickly and
you know the lawyers were trying to push it out as long as possible and delay everything and you know focus on you
using their nonprofit organization to do fundraising and you know really kind of prioritizing profit over
the best interest of the client um and so you know that was something that when
they were kind of explaining everything to Bernie Carrick he said you know you might want to meet my lawyer Tim um so
you know so they introduced me I had you know a lot of good conversations with the family um Eddie unfortunately he
didn’t get to see any Billboards or anything because he was locked in jail so um not that I have any Billboards but
um he I I finally got to talk to him after you know having several conversations with the family and you
know he felt comfortable with me so I got him got on board what what were there not to just to interject a quick
question while I’m thinking about what what was the the what was Jag’s
justification for his uh pre-trial confinement because I remember that being a subject that I saw talked about
in the news quite a bit is that they’re you know they it’s nobody’s ever alleged
it wasn’t like he was wanted he didn’t you know Murder a bunch of people on base or something like that what was
their justification from that did they you know other than the fact that they just wanted to beat him down well he’s a
seal and therefore he’s dangerous and he can run away and he’s so highly trained that you know if you allow a seal to be
free you know they’re going to go do a whole bunch of B Jason Bourne stuff yeah so that was literally that was their
justification pretty much pretty much I mean they you know they they kind of dressed it up in legal terms but
ultimately at the end of the day there wasn’t really a good justification to
keep him in but here’s the thing prosecutors they love to use bail and
pre-ra confinement as a tool you know to really gain an advantage and to coer
people into pleading guilty it’s a lot more difficult to fight a case and defend yourself when you are in pre-ra
confinement you have a lot less access to your lawyers you have a lot less access to be able to go through
Discovery and assist in your own defense makes things much more timec consuming much more expensive and much more likely
that you’re going to get convicted and the conditions of pre-trial confinement are generally much
more severe than where you would go after you’re convicted so some guys they
just they run out of money and they plead guilty just to get out of there yeah that’s I would imagine that beats you down quite a bit psychologically too
because the it’s not like you’re sleeping in your own bed you know eating breakfast with your your wife and kids
every day you the the realization of man if I lose this this is what the rest of
my life is potentially like and that can I could see how that you know especially somebody who’s maybe not 100% confident
in in their in their side of things uh might be shaken by that oh yeah yeah
yeah so I mean that’s that’s the real reason why prosecutors like to have people in pre-ra confinement but then they do a whole
bunch of dressing it up to say oh it’s because they’re Flight Risk you know they they’re danger to society and you
I’ve represented more than a few seals and that that of course is always the you know the refrain you get these Jag
lawyers going into you know Courthouse saying you know but he’s a sealed he’s highly trained he’s very
dangerous so but but that’s that’s really ultimately what the justification was gotcha so
when you uh when you got brought on board in an official capacity and you got I I would imagine there was you know
legal boxes being dropped off for you to look through you know there was you know discovery of evidence and sitting down
and talking with Eddie and what what was your impression what was you know what were your first thoughts you know maybe
in the first day or so about this case and about what was going on so you know it’s one of those things
where obviously in the media they’re saying a whole bunch of stuff and you want to see what the actual documents
say and I was expecting there to be something something in there much more
damaging you know there had to be some kind of Smoking Gun or something that I
I tell again sorry to interrupt but as a lay person yeah reading the news about that was my impression was I I would
read news stories again and again and I’m like there’s no there like what there’s got to be something
that we’re not privy to because this just looks like a midday on deployment
from what I’m reading so what there there’s got to be something there I’m
not you know it’s there and I again not being a lawyer that that was my
impression really throughout was it’s like there’s got to be something there that we’re not there’s got to be a big
aha right that we’re not seeing well and there were rumors of oh they have a
video of him committing the murder so obviously I looked for that it wasn’t there didn’t
exist uh you know and I’ll tell you the single most damaging piece of evidence this is something I asked Eddie in my
first conversation they said what’s the worst thing they have on you and it’s a photograph you know they had a
photograph of him that he texted to his buddy uh and superficially it seems like
a really bad photograph because you know after after this whole thing was over all the guys in the platoon they all
took photos with the Dead Terrorist and so Eddie’s got a photo where he’s you know down on one knee holding the uh the
Dead Terrorist by his hair and he’s got the knife in the other hand and he texts it to his buddy with a joke saying haha
got him with my hunting knife on on the surface that seems like a really bad photo when you’re accused
of murdering somebody with a knife but here’s the thing when you look
at it a little bit more carefully you not not from a media standpoint obviously the media would look at that and say oh that’s that’s so horrible so
incriminating but you know doc if I showed you this photograph with your training and experience you would
instantly look at it and you’d say that photo is evidence of Innocence not evidence of guilt because if you stab
somebody in the neck causing death how much blood is coming out yeah
oh a lot a lot yeah and so if you’re wearing these nice you know you know the
gloves you know that are the you know the nice tan gloves on and you’re
wearing the desert camo and all that kind of stuff you’d expect tons of blood
everywhere but there wasn’t even a speck not a speck of blood on his gloves
nothing on his pants you know his arms nothing the knife was clean and when
they did DNA on the knife they found no blood on the knife and it wasn’t an
issue knife it was a knife that he got you know when they were doing some Mountain survival training from some Mountain Man up there and he kept it you
know in the small of his back in a leather sheath they tested the inside of the leather sheath and found no blood no
blood particles whatsoever and so all those things you know we have photographs with no blood
you have a knife with no blood you have the inside of a leather sheath which clearly is going to soak up blood with
no blood none of that supports the idea
that the man that the cause of death is stabbing you know and when you describe
that I it’s that’s one of those things that uh
to people that haven’t been to War I can understand how that would be shocking
yeah um uh if there’s a whole scene in uh in the
film Full Metal Jacket where they’re basically sitting around having lunch with a VC corpse propped up against a
wall right exactly and they’re making jokes about it and they’re posing with it and everything else so to think that
this is uh this is extremely uncommon is
extremely naive it’s it’s something is it in good taste no is it is it
technically against uh some certain laws of land Warfare yes right well I mean
depending on how you use the the photographs right so if you’re using them for propaganda if you’re putting
them on leaflets and then dropping them saying this is what I did to your buddy this is what I’m gonna do to you that’s
illegal right we can’t do that um but it’s uh you know so if if he had
the same picture but minus the knife and it was I was holding his head up because we were doing uh you know uh you
know data we’re doing biod dat points on him right that’s a totally different photograph at that point right correct
so uh you know is it is it something that I’ve done no uh and knock on wood
there’s no photographs out there that gonna that are gonna prove me wrong but um no I’m I’m confident there aren’t any
photographs like that of me out there but it is you know what is it damning to
someone you know that’s a that’s a slap on the wrist and uh hey maybe we’re
gonna maybe we’re going to make you wait a cycle before you go up for the promotion board next time right or or
something it’s not it’s not yeah it’s not not damning by any means and and I
talk and this is a conversation I’ve had with people multiple times I’ve had this conversation in a room full of
psychiatrists um that uh it’s I I did a psych rotation uh uh a military psych rotation
when I was in medical school and they were talking about oh how did like I and
this there was again I’m sorry I’m getting this off track a little bit but it’s there were two things that really
Disturbed me about the whole conversation the first of which was and and remember I was a I was a former
enlisted guy so I’d done 17 years enlisted before I went to medical school the the topics of the
conversation were well we can kind of understand if the Enlisted dehumanize
the people that we’re fighting against you know because they’re not very smart and you know whatever they have to do
for coping strategies but when you hear officers make comments like that you should really pull them aside and have a
conversation with them about it and I was just sitting there my like Jaw just hanging open and I’m like I’m like oh my
God you like I said and I I remember the exact words I used and I I so I’m a
second lieutenant in a room full of mostly captains but also uh majors and
and some light Colonels I don’t think there was 06 in the room I said you people live in a snow
globe I said that’s the only way that I can say this like you don’t you really have no understanding of what what’s
going on in War and what you have to do and you know and I said if anything you
should be the Commander’s adviser on how to come up with these coping strategies right and then recognizing when people
take them too far because if it’s just occurring in the wild it will go too far
you know and we have seen that in a couple of cases right you know people urinating on corpses and that making it
back home and things like that but but I digress um what was your uh what was
your assessment of the motivation behind the prosecution and other than the fact that
it was already in the news and they were going to look stupid if they let it drop why why do you think they were like a
dog on a bone that they wouldn’t let it drop even though as time went by it seemed more and more and more that they
had no case at all well there’s a lot of things that play to that and you start off with the
principle that prosecutors once they’ve made a public accusation um the frequency that they
will go back on that and say we made a mistake and we charged somebody we shouldn’t have is pretty close to zero
you know they they would prefer to go to trial let me you know win and then blame me you know rather than admit they made
a mistake and that’s that’s not military prosecutors that’s prose period um you know very rare do they go
back on on things especially after they’ve had all the press conferences and everything else um it’s a lot easier
to convince a prosecutor you’re going down the wrong path before it becomes public but in this case yeah I think
that you have to take actually a couple of steps back from that so you start
with the NCIS agent who takes this case over who’s a brand new guy he’s been an NCIS agent for like two years
um before that he was a border patrol officer and he sees this big war crimes
case and thinks this is what’s going to make my career and he totally screwed it
up he totally ignored anything that didn’t fit with the predetermined conclusion and he really presented a
half-baked very poorly done investigation he presented it initially
not to the prosecutors but to the commanders over at Naval Warfare command
M and the problem he had there was the commanders at that point you got to
remember this is you know 2018 so we’ve been at War for you know close to two
decades and the commanders believed that there was a breakdown in good order and
discipline in the SEAL Teams after close to two decades of constant
deployments they read this um this investigation and they thought this is a
good good opportunity for us to reins good order and discipline we can take a
very popular very you know well resected sailor of the
year put him in jail for life that’s going to send a message to
the rest of the SEAL Teams of You better lock it up gotcha and you know and in my
opinion I understand the motivation of the commanders but you know what if you’re going to make an example out of
somebody the first thing you need to do is take a closer look at that investigation and ask the question well
did he actually do it before I make an example of somebody let’s make sure he’s
actually guilty so now you got Naval special Warfare command that’s all over him you
got NCIS that’s all over him you hand that to the prosecutor and you know Perfect Storm
they gave it to this guy commander chapl who was you know some this career
oriented guy who I’ve been told at the time was not
quiet about the fact that he believed a conviction here was his ticket to become
an’ 06 captain and he was a guy that um probably still
is the guy that prioritized his own career over his ethics
sure which is something that I proved in court his ethical behavior and so you
take all that those things and it’s just that perfect storm to let’s go after the
guy yeah yeah you know it
um never I’ve never been even peripherally involved in in any type of
uh any type of case you know that even even close to to Eddie’s case but I did
have a a roommate when I was in seventh group uh got brought up on on some some
pretty bogus charges and basically uh I I won’t use his name because I didn’t give permission to do
so because I didn’t know I was going to talk about this today but basically what happened is he was TDY in
Panama um he was uh it was closing time he was leaving a bar he was by himself
uh which he’d been stationed in Panama he was a native Spanish speaker he knew the he knew which areas you could go in
and kind of be safe about that so you know he had deliberately gone to a place that had enough of an American presence
he knew he wasn’t going to be uh you know in in any danger or anything like that and uh it was coming up on C
that was when there were for the longest time in Panama there was a curfew and uh the weird thing about I don’t know if you know this the weird thing about the
curfew was you didn’t have to be back at post you just couldn’t be out walking around you could actually the the curfew
it was a weird curfew it was like 2 am to 5 AM or something like that and you could actually stay in the bar and you
weren’t in violation of curfew you just couldn’t be out you know if you showed up at the gate at 3:00 a.m. you were in
trouble right if if you were caught seen outside you know on the sidewalk or
something like that uh you were in trouble um so uh he goes outside he’s
gonna hail a cab he’s going to come back to post and uh some P some plain closed
Panamanian cops saw him and they decided they were G to shake him down because that’s you know well the uh the
corruption in the in the uh the police force in Panama is is world renowned
right so they try to shake him down and he tells him to go pound sand like this
isn’t this isn’t going to work so they’re like we’ll arrest you and he’s like go ahead like you know this is a
this is a guy who’d been a platoon sard in Panama so he knew the deal is they’re gonna keep escalating the bluff and
eventually they’re going to get you to the jail and they’re not going to be able to charge you and then but now it’s going to be after curfew so they’re just
going to call the MPS to get you right right so he’s like that’s fine do what you got got to do so they get him in the
car they take him to the jail and they keep telling him hey you know you give us a 100 bucks we’ll let you go no give
us 50 bucks we’ll let you go no give us 20 bucks we’ll let you go no give us this pack of cigarettes we’ll let you go
no so he’s like I I’m not I’m not paying you guys call the MPS so they call the
MPS the MP that picked him up even said hey I know the deal you don’t even have
to explain anything where where where are you staying on Post told him drove him I and I think I want to say the MP
even even stopped to get food on the way like that’s how cool he was being about it right drops him off he goes uh you
know catches a flight home a day or two later all forgotten ends up showing up on the blot report and we got a new
commander and this guy I will mention because he was a dick uh his name was John bone uh he was a piece of when
he was my company Commander he was a even bigger piece of when he was my Battalion Commander so bone decides that
oh we’re we’re charged him like this is this is happening right so brings him in uh he won’t won’t sign you
know won’t you know you no I’m not signing anything I want a lawyer I want this go to go to trial and they’re like
ah just sign it BL slap on the wrist it’s GNA be a local blah no no I’m not signing anything we’re going to trial so
uh they ended up going to trial and it’s they kept the whole thing back and forth
I won’t get into the it’s I could tell this story it’s like an hourong story that ended up involving some PS trying
to make a name for thems and and and some other uh right before it went
to trial trial though the the uh the prosecutor um calls his attorney and he
happens to be in the room with the attorney uh when he gets called and he goes look we’re gonna We want to make
this go away we’re willing to do you know we’re going to downgrade everything to the XY and Z all he’s got to do is
sign it and uh the attorney said to the prosecutor said okay well here’s what I want you to do I want you to uh I want
you to print up four copies of of all the paperwork that you just described I
want you to have it signed uh by the Battalion commander and the group commander and then what I want you to do
is I want you to uh I want you to roll them up really tight and I want you to shove them up your because we’re
going to trial I like that yeah and and and they
they beat it they beat it in court with no difficulty whatsoever it was you know affect his career at all um but it it’s
you know I’ve always that was my first exposure to the depths that uh the
military legal system will go to and like you said that at any point they could have just let go there were a dog
that could have let go of that bone at any point and as it and it got as it got farther and farther and farther down the
rabbit hole it was more and more and more evident that there was no way they were GNA win um but they just kept
battling it out I and I will tell you this this was pretty funny is uh they ended up having to do the trial actually
in Panama they had to he and his lawyer had to go TDY to Panama to do this as did the prosecutor as did two different
Witnesses right um so they go down there
and uh it’s and you’re I’m probably more familiar with this than I am it wasn’t a 12p person jury it was like a Sixers
jury I think yeah it was six ncos on the jury and they were all stationed in Panama and his attorney said uh and I
think it I don’t know if it was in opening remarks closing remarks whatever but he was talking about he you know basically my client was a victim here he
was he was being shaken down and he goes I’m gonna ask you members of the jury how many of you in your time here in
Panama how many of you have been shaken down for a bribe by a Panamanian police
officer and all six of them raised their hand yeah yeah so there so there was no way that that was going anywhere but uh
the Gallagher case you know you know kudos to you for for identifying that and I’m I’m I think you know at the end
I’m glad that he got you know absolutely the right lawyer who a wasn’t a who a knew the system and B wasn’t afraid to
to stand up for the system uh let me Jump Ahead a little bit let me ask you this uh you’re probably
even better known in some circles especially those who who saw you on the on the Sha Ryan podcast for your
involvement uh with the former president Trump’s legal team Y how how did that
happen what what were you know it’s was it your your connection to New York that ultimately LED you to that or you know
what uh how did you become to be a part of his legal team and what particularly
What specifically was going on at that time when you were brought on board sure so you know the president he was aware
of me uh from the Gallagher case you it was it was a case that he had taken interest in um and so he was certainly
aware of me during that time uh and you know when um
when when the whole January 6 committee uh started doing their investigation they uh they subpena Bernie Carrick um
see he’s the name that keeps coming up through all these things and so I represented Bernie Carrick with the
January 6 committee and a couple of other people um and then I was doing
some work uh for actually the former Governor of Missouri Eric giton and one of the
people uh on his campaign was also doing some work with h president Trump and so
you know kind of came to me and said you know would you be interested in doing uh some work for the for the former
president uh and I said you know I would be interested in it you know there are
things there are things that I am interested in doing there are things that I’m not uh and so you know he has
legitimate legal issues that he needs you a good strong competent defense on
those things I’m happy to happy to take a part of you know all the all the you know politics and campaign stuff you
know that that’s not me so I got on to the team and
initially this was very early on this is like April of 22 I think yeah and so
it’s before all of these criminal investigations really kicked off um you know they were kind of
nent uh and yeah the first thing did was dealing with the legality surrounding
the 51 former Intel officers who signed the uh the letter claiming that Hunter
Biden’s laptop was Russian disinformation and whether that had you
know the manner in which they had written that violated the intelligence community’s uh policies and
non-disclosure agreements um you know because it it essentially says you know we have all
this Collective access to classified materials uh and we we know all this classified stuff about Russia and based
on our knowledge this is what it is yeah the fact that NADA bakos is one of the
names on that list should should tell you everything you need to know so she’s
that’s somebody who’s overstated her credentials uh overstated her involvement in
everything uh you know as soon as I saw her name on it I’m like okay this is somebody
somebody might as well wipe their ass this because it’s not worth the paper that it’s printed on so so I started with that and then um
then I was also dealing with the January 6th investigation which at the time was the US attorney’s office you know this
is well before Jack Smith came into the picture uh and then of course they raided Mar Lago uh which you know threw
everything into a whole different world and so there was a you core group of criminal lawyers um you know my myself
and three other guys and so we kind of you know jointly handled both of those
investigations January 6 Mr logo uh and so I was deeply involved with both of
those things until uh May of last year uh which is when I decided to step away
from the team um as it turns out about a month before the
indictment interesting very interesting what what’s your assessment of uh what’s
going on in in speaking of of New York of course Leticia James and and uh I
I I just I don’t know how you can campaign on a platform of I’m gonna find
a reason to bring to drag somebody into court uh and then simultaneously try to
gag gag order the accused while you’re trolling on social
media uh and speculating on social media and and everything else I don’t
um the whole thing it’s to me it’s I’m seeing every bad stereotype about what
people think about lawyers in her actions um what’s your take on that it
is it is an indication of two things um you know two two kind of factors that
come together law enforcement officials should not be
partisan elected officials anytime anytime you start mixing elections and politics in with
law enforcement yeah is right for abuse yeah then then you’re look then you’re
looking at this is where the enemies lists start to come in right yeah and
it’s far worse in places like New York that are single party jurisdictions
because where you do have that single party jurisdiction the way that she gets
elected and the way that she gets reelected is through the primary because the general election is you know
virtually un un unopposed so she has to play to the base
in the primary election and so that is and it’s not just it’s not just blue
States the same thing happens in in red States as well where you’re just to your
base for a law enforcement position that’s where you really are politicizing
law enforcement and it it does get straight into all of those you know bad
stereotypes uh it it does give Credence to um you know to all of the campaign
talking points about you know partisan uh law enforcement that’s you
know out to take out their political opponents that that’s that’s where it happens yeah the uh the tamony hall
mentality has really never left New York politics correct correct it really it
really hasn’t it’s uh it’s to me just everything that we’re
seeing and and I agree with you I think it’s uh we’re definitely we’re seeing
the uh the weaponization of the Politico legal system and and I we’ve never seen it
well I won’t say we’ve never seen it on the level that that we’re seeing it now but you know it’s as I pointed out in an
Instagram post not long ago you know uh Lincoln was kept off of ballots and you
know and I’m not saying you know of course people were very quick to call me out you know well you Trump is no
Lincoln okay it’s yeah I I agree with you he Trump is no Lincoln I’m not saying that he is but uh you know this
we’re getting into an ends justifies the means ment ality on the left side of the
political aisle and I don’t I think some of them are finally starting to wake up
and realize what the long-term implications of this could be um that’s
exactly it yeah you have to whenever you use an ends justifies the
means um you know rationale for doing something you have to stop and think would I be okay if this exact same rule
gets applied in the exact opposite direction right yeah and it’s you know
this and this is a conversation I’ve had uh I’ve had similar conversations with
people that I’ve I’ve debated with on the left side of the aisle and I remember at one point talking to
somebody about gun control and I said uh I said what what if Donald Trump gets
elected president again wouldn’t wouldn’t you want to be armed and they were like oh yeah
definitely yeah and I’m like there you go I’m like because I’m trying to explain to him you know my my the Second
Amendment doesn’t exist for crime prevention it doesn’t exist for sport shooting it doesn’t exist for hunting it
exists so nobody with a governmental Authority feels comfortable kicking in
my door and taking from me and uh it’s it’s a slippery slope and I don’t
think there I think there’s again I think the more intelligent are starting to realize that and I think that’s why
you’re starting to get some push back do you have any doubt at all that uh the Supreme Court is going to overturn what
we’ve seen in Colorado and Maine as far as keeping uh president Trump off the
ballot you know I hate to say that I have no doubt um as a lawyer I’m very
well conditioned to caveat everything with there’s no guarantees in the justice system but I would I would be
you know very confident in betting that they’re going to overturn it I don’t think it’s going to be as sweeping as
people think I think that they’re going to um you know they’re going to find some narrow threshold
issue um and and that’s how they’re going to do it yes so I don’t I don’t I wouldn’t expect them to come out and say
uh he is or he is not an insurrectionist I think that they’re going to more rely
upon something along on the lines of this is not for a state court to decide well since since he hasn’t been
convicted of insurrection or even charged with Insurrection but he has been
acquitted he has been acquitted okay a lot of people forget I well I did so is
that the 14th Amendment says you know section three talks about
you know the Insurrection shall be permanently barred section five says Congress shall have
the the power to enforce this Congress did attempt to enforce this they
impeached him the second impeachment was for a single count of insurrection he he had a trial he was
acquitted and I think that yeah even though you know even though the litigant
in that Supreme Court case haven’t made a big deal about it I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Supreme Court
kind of wipes all their arguments to the side and says hey this said says
Congress shall have the power to enforce Congress did enforce Nancy Pelosi was
very open about it at the time the reason why we need to have an impeachment trial after he has left
office so he can’t run so that he can’t come back gotcha and so I think the
Supreme Court can very easily just pull that AC quid and simply say
this bars any other proceeding because Congress has already l at this
interesting see that’s one of those things you know we always talk about how the retraction to the news story is on
page seven right where you have a a headline ISS front page headline issue the retraction on page seven so that’s
and again not being a lawyer not being a legal scholar myself that’s something that I totally missed is that is that
the reason you don’t see as much as someone like Leticia James or some of these uh Soros back da with love to
charge him is that why do they not have the power do they not have the authority because it solely rests with Congress in
Article 5 so Insurrection is a crime under Title 18 us code uh I think it’s
2383 uh section and in that section you know Congress actually took the 14th
Amendment language broadened it because in the 14th Amendment it only bars
people that have been previously officers of the United States who’ve taken an oath to support the
Constitution um that’s you by the way yeah well and specifically Pro is there
were a lot of Confederate generals right who had been West Point graduates us
generals and what they didn’t want right was basically oh now now all those
generals we were just fighting against now they’re all representatives in Congress they’re all state Governors and
and Robert E Lee is President you know four years down the road that’s what they didn’t want so the 14 Amendment
really only applies to those who previously were officers but in the title 18 us code
Congress expanded that to anybody got who’s engaged in an Insurrection shall be permanently barred
from holding public office but it requires a criminal trial now impeachment doesn’t in my
opinion bar criminal charges I know that they’re arguing that on appeal right now
but I don’t think that’s going to win there’s no Double Jeopardy in fact they even said it at the time this does not affect you know the criminal proceedings
the grand juries in DC could very easily have indicted for
Insurrection they didn’t so he went before grand jury in DC that indicted him for obstruction of
Congress and some of these other things but not Insurrection and in fact those same grand juries looked at all of the
people that actually entered the building and they didn’t charge any of them with Insurrection now they came close right
the oathkeeper case they charged them with sedici conspiracy which is the next
section it’s you know it’s kind of like you know if you look at the statutes they’re lined up with you know most
serious you know all the way down to the least serious and so it’s like you know
first deegree murder second degree murder first degree manslaughter like that when seditious conspiracy is one
level below insurrections so grand juries have considered this and they’ve
declined to indict a single person for Insurrection and this is one of the reasons why I’m so dead set against
using that word Insurrection to describe January 6 yeah it it absolutely every
time I hear somebody use it it drives me absolutely crazy it’s a legal term now
if you want to call it a sedition okay people have been charged and convicted for that but if you but the an
Insurrection is I mean that that’s like saying you know Governor Cuomo you know he had to resign because of allegations
of rape no no no sexual harassment but close enough no it’s a legal term right
so you know so that’s why you know to me you shouldn’t even be talking about
Insurrection until somebody’s been charged with it yeah you know years years ago I don’t I don’t even remember
what the context was but somebody uh somebody uh made the comment it might
have even been like a comedian said he said you know why do people say armed Insurrection isn’t that kind of redundant
right and and I remember thinking that and like yeah that is pretty redundant like you know by and and I spent a good
chunk of my military career uh in unconventional warfare so uh I I
understand Insurrection from both sides of that coin not not to use the term coin as counterinsurgency
operations um coin yeah I I know how to fight an Insurrection and I know how to
plan and and and start an Insurrection right and uh I can say unequivocally
what we saw on January 6th was not an Insurrection not by any definition of
the term uh that I’ve ever that that occurs in any military manual
that as it is taught to the people who are going to fight in and against an
Insurrection that didn’t it doesn’t even remotely resemble one and that’s why every time I hear the term it’s it’s I’m
like H it’s I I just I see it as virtual signaling it’s the same people that use the term Insurrection are the same
people that say like um words or violence no it’s you’ve never been punched in the face if you think words
are violent if you look if you look at when they wrote the 14th Amendment nobody really needed to
Define insurrection time because it was written very specifically I mean they
could have easily written the thing member of the Confederacy you know there was no
question what an Insurrection was an Insurrection was putting on a gray coat and shooting at people wearing blue
coats yeah yeah no every every amendment in the Constitution must like you said
must be framed during the time time period uh in which it was written to include the Bill of Rights right it’s
you know they weren’t uh they weren’t trying to enshrine the right to hunt they weren’t trying to you know they
hadn’t just gone through a crime wave when they wrote the Second Amendment they had just fought a tyrant right so
that’s the second amendment is about fighting tyranny uh you know the the 19th Amendment women’s suffrage is I is
is we can debate this all day long but a a a a good portion of that is hey
whether we like it or not the Industrial Revolution is is coming the the The
Winds of Change are blowing right women are going to have a more active role in everything we do as Society since
they’re going to have a place in the workforce they need to have a place at at the table they need to have adequate
representation uh this is long overdue right uh every Amendment must must be
looked at in in in with the time in which it was written because that certainly has a big impact on it um it’s
uh it’s we live in very interesting times from from a legal point of view speaking of January 6 and not to get too
far off track or down a rabbit hole but what’s your opinion on the whole uh Ray
EPS thing and and yeah obviously you can’t tell me about anything privileged
or anything but H how much of that got talked about uh behind closed doors if you can talk about yeah I I really don’t
know much about it I mean that was one of those things that kind of circulated around the internet um you know I I
represented multiple people before the January 6 committee and obviously you know dealing with the um the January 6
investigation of trump and you know that that piece of it never really you know
came about you it was never really you know relevant to anything that I was doing um and you know
it’s the people that I was representing In fairness were not anybody who you
know went into the building and started creating any Mayhem and so to that end
it it wasn’t really relevant to the things that I was doing because you know if unless you can show that one of these
you know leaders was sitting down and specifically saying I want you to go into the building and do
this right yeah it’s it’s not really um it’s kind of beside the point I mean you
know what my opinion of the way that Donald Trump was you know making his
speech there and telling everybody to you know go down there peacefully and patriotically to make your voices
heard um he truly believed that there was fraud in the
election and that the result was tainted yeah personally I have no idea whether
there was fraud or whether if there was fraud whether it got to that level yeah mostly because in my opinion it’s never
really been fully investigated but he believed it yeah he was begging for an
investigation and when he told people go down there make your voices heard let
them know we’re not happy with the idea of certifying this election without
first making sure that it’s accurate and you it’s something it’s an argument that I’ve raised many times that the
between overturning the will of the people and making sure that the will of
the people has been accurately tabulated those two things can look the
same and depending on your point of view if you’re on the Biden side obviously it looks like you’re trying to overturn it
sure but you know and it’s unfortunate that they didn’t play it out
a little bit further it’s unfortunate that bill bar refused to send that FBI agents to do an investigation
because how different would things have been if they came back and said look Mr President we’ve done a full
investigation we took every single point the Rudy Giuliani raised and here’s what
we found this is an innocent explanation for each and every line item and if if they had made that
presentation to him and he at that point had said Bill thank you very much for
telling me this we’re marching on the capital anyway now you got a point yeah now it’s
it’s different in in order in order to to say that he did something criminal
you have to prove what he was thinking corrupt intent yeah corrupt intent which
none of us can prove that you know it’s it’s funny uh I don’t know uh so so I’m I’m
my wife gives me a hard time all the time that I go off on these side hers but uh have you ever heard of uh
something called morgelin syndrome no so there’s there’s a psychological
disorder called morgelin syndrome and what it is is people um think they have
worms coming out of their skin right it’s something that’s been documented for a decade as long as I’ve
been in medicine we’ve we’ve known about it it’s I think it’s been going around I’d have to look never dealt with it
what yeah what it is is people they scratch yeah and then
you you see a little thread from your clothing or something right and uh it’s
like I say it’s a psychological disorder oftentimes these people will put that thread in a baggie or in a jar and
they’ll go to the doctor I’ve had people come into my emergency room with threads from their clothes in a jar saying these
are the worms coming out of my skin and you show them these are these are not worms these are threads and they don’t
it’s they’re they’re very invest Ed in this it’s very hard to convince them but it’s something in in in the realm of
Medical Science it’s something we have been 100% sure is a psychological
disorder it’s not a real thing it’s it is what it is it you know we
just need to stop talking about it right right um well uh a few years back some
constituents of uh Diane Feinstein got together and did a petition and they
were all sufferers of morgelin syndrome and they went to her office and they said we’re all suffering with this
disorder we have these parasites coming out of our skin everybody keeps telling us we’re
crazy so Diane because of Dian Feinstein the center for and she called the Center
for Disease Control they immediately told her this is it’s in textbooks it’s a psychological disorder there’s nothing
there’s no there there there’s nothing to investigate she made the CDC do a and and to their credit it was actually
pretty cheap it was only a $250,000 study to prove something that we had
known in medical science for decades just to prove to Diane Feinstein and her
crazy ass voters that this is not a real thing so what I’m getting there is if we
can spend $250,000 to prove sweater fibers or
sweater fibers which we’ve known for decades why can’t they spend a little bit of money to and I and I’m with you I
don’t think I think there I think voter fraud exists do I think it existed on a I think it’s it’s way harder for me to
believe that voter fraud existed on such a scale to completely turn the tide of
an election when you can’t in it’s impossible to find five people to keep a secret in this goddamn country right
that’s almost impossible for me to believe it’s a lot easier for me to believe that the NeverEnding news cycle
and social media and people wanting to believe what they wanted to believe suckered in a lot of gullible people
into voting for a demented narcissist that’s a lot easily that’s a lot easier for me to
believe um that and the and the fact that you know was there ballot harvesting going on yes was it illegal
technically probably not but we need to tighten up those laws we need to close those loopholes and there was way too
much mail and voting that occurred I don’t think the mail and voting I don’t think those votes were fraudulent but I
think those votes were cast by lazy who who would not have gone down to the polls anyway and those and th and
if if you’re too lazy to get off your ass and go to the polls I don’t want you voting because you’re probably not a
productive member of society you know there is a difference this is something I was thinking at the time when they
were looking at some of these different litigation strategies and some of the process violations where where you know
the the way that they did the mailin ballots you know you know didn’t wasn’t
correct I look at it and I say you know that’s great maybe you should have done
that you know a couple of months before the election when you found out that this is how they were GNA conduct it you
should have found a lawsuit at that point yeah you can’t you can’t you can’t wait and then when you get the outcome
you don’t like now it’s a problem right exactly you can’t you can’t wait you you you put it out there and say okay you
know what because the Secretary of State screwed up in how they you know created these
you know ballots and everything you know Grandma who you know read how to vote
did did what she had to do and submitted her ballot you know by mail we’re just not going to count that you so I never
bought into any of those arguments if you can find fraud like legitimate
provable fraud that changes the outcome you know that that’s something important and quite frankly my theory on a lot of
these things is some of them were careless some of them you know they were they were doing a lot of these things
based on mathematical analysis of the publicly available data
on the Secretary of State’s websites well if you want to turn this country into complete
turmoil let’s say you’re sitting there in China right and you watched what happened in 2016 of oh you know Russian
collusion the best thing you could do would be to hack into the Secretary of State’s
website monkey with their spreadsheet a little bit so that all of a sudden now
people on the other side of the aisle start saying hey there’s a dump of this many votes at this time in the middle of
the night and all for Biden and so therefore it looks like
fraud right and it’s now you know it’s now fraud going the other way so you
know in 2016 it was you know Russian collusion for Trump and now it’s you
know fraud against Trump yeah from a destabilization you know perspective
that’d be a brilliant operation for the Chinese to engage in let me give you an example of how some of these things were
just straight up screw-ups so in Pennsylvania for example
they had um you know they had the number of absentee ballots that went out they
had the number that came back uh and and when they did this analysis they figured
out you know that I forget what the exactly the numbers were like 1.98
million absentee ballots were mailed out 2.5 million came back that is a number you can really syn
your teeth into because that’s just over 500,000 ballots that weren’t sent out so
clearly those are fraudulent okay and if the if the Delta between you know Trump
and Biden is you know less than that now you can actually sit there and say this
result can’t be trusted but here’s the problem the guy
doing the analysis screwed it up 1.98 million absentee BS went out for the
primary 2.5 came back for the
general he didn’t he didn’t look at the at the right columns gotcha he messed up
the math yeah and unfortunately Rudy Giuliani then gets this this analysis he
puts it out and he says this is this is a problem this is clear fraud does Rudy juliani redouble check
the math himself no that’s not what he does he relies upon the person that did the analysis who screwed it up and
that’s turned out to be a very expensive mistake on correct here’s the thing is that
because because he didn’t have the resources he didn’t have any body to
double check you know if this was the Hillary Clinton campaign they would have had an
army of thousand an hour lawyers and accountants and ernston young and all these different firms double-checking
everything Rudy had like nothing to support him so he had no way of
double-checking this math and and that’s a perfect example of
where you know it that’s a number that you could really sink your teeth into
right you then look at a lot of these polling places or not the polling plac the counting places where they excluded
the you The Observers and they you know they locked the Republican observers out that’s something when I met with Jack
Smith’s team they didn’t want to talk about that you know they didn’t like that that’s not a very helpful fact for
them because that was something that’s it’s provable but it’s also not helpful
because what happens while there’s no observers there you don’t have any way of proving it
they could have done all the counting perfectly correctly and accurately while The Observers weren’t there they could
have fed a whole bunch of fake ballots through the machine they could have fed the ballots you know repeatedly through the machine nobody
knows but it’s so difficult because since you can’t prove you know did this
have an effect on the outcome it’s not really one of those things you know like
the mathematical equation you can really grab to and say aha see this actually
changes this is a reason to disregard everything that these people did and by
people I mean the voters this is because The Observers were kicked out does that
mean that you know Grandma’s ballot should be just thrown out and
forgotten no and that that’s kind of that’s kind of the problem and so
really in my opinion what they should be doing is taking all of these things as Lessons Learned to lock it down so we
never have another election like this where anybody can question the legitimacy of it yeah if anything gives
you a road map to where are all the holes so you can go plug them yeah you
know and that’s that’s a conversation that I’ve had with people people on May on the other side
of the aisle or you know some of my friends who call themselves moderates um who’ve said well there uh
it’s there there was an election fraud there just there wasn’t I’m like okay let’s for the sake of argument let’s say
there was none zero not a single vote let’s have the quality control
measures in play because the American people have a right to feel like that election is secure right they have a
right to feel that way right and I’m not you know could could this abs absolutely
go too far right is you know we’ve all seen the situations right where every time every time you you you prove
something or every time you conc a point now something else gets added in right and I’m not I I don’t want to play to
those people right but I think you know there are people that I would consider
you know myself I consider myself to be pretty moderate and and not an I consider myself to not be an idiot and I
I don’t think that the safeguards in place to ensure a secure and fair election and I think we can I think we
can do so much better and it’s no secret you get you get two beers in in in a
Democrat and they’ll admit to you they W they they know that the more they lower
the bar to voting the more votes they’re going to get because it’s they need the
non-self starters right they need the not motivated people to get in there and vote uh because if if only the people
that are looking at the issues logic Ally vote they lose every election they know that um and I get that um but it
it’s you know to me there’s there’s a there’s a line between hey let’s let’s make voting easier for the people that
have a right to vote and hey let’s just make it so let’s just you know lower the bar entirely you know on the opposite
end of this the Spectrum right you have the the uh the extreme Libertarians and anarchists right they want there to be
like no laws you know there’s people that that approach elections in the same way and I think it’s you know we’ve
we’ve done a really good job as a country in my opinion uh getting rid of
voter suppression I think anybody who claims voter suppression in 2024 is just trying to get attention again these are
the same these are the same people that say words or violence right uh you know but voter fraud it’s and you know here’s
the the irony is um Al Sharpton was making accusations of voter fraud you
know you know uh during uh I think it was the Obama’s uh reelection you know
he said oh the machines can be hacked and this and that we’re not some of those machines are still in place we’re
not hearing any of these allegations anymore and I think uh you know I I
would like my government to be you know ensuring to me that you know every vote
every vote’s going to count it’s going to get counted once and it’s going to be verified that it’s a that’s that it’s a
a legal vote that’s all I ask I don’t ask anything more than that you know I’m not asking that anybody be
disenfranchised um I I just I want some transparency and uh I want security and
I I don’t think that’s too much to ask it’s all about outcome versus
process yeah which is the same way that I look at judicial decision making is
that outcome should not be what is driving you process should be driving
you if the process is legal and fair and reliable and trustworthy the outcome
will be what it is if you happen to be on You Know The Winning Side of an
election and you don’t want anybody to check the process because you don’t want to you know potentially change the
result that’s a problem and it’s the same thing to me in
judicial decision making don’t start fig fing out how do you want this case to end and then you know as a judge mold
your decisions based on that outcome give everybody the same
process and the results will be just right no I I I agree I agree with you
100 percent let me ask you um shifting is you know still kind of on the same in
the same Arena but shifting gears a little bit and this is uh to my knowledge this is a case you haven’t been involved in at all but uh you know
stemmed from the whole January 6 thing so the Ashley babbit thing and uh I’ve
been uh people who are on my side of the political aisle get a little bit pissed
about at me for my opinions on the Ashley Baba thing I think I think she did a lot of really stupid that
day um I think uh crawling attempting to force your way through a window of a
locked and barricaded door I I don’t think the outcome of that should surprise anyone in my opinion um
and I also think you know people it’s this something about her popped up on my feed just yesterday and people are oh
that’s you know this guy should be charged with murder and the fact that he hasn’t been charged and I think there
it’s again not a lawyer um I don’t think there’s I don’t think there’s a case
there because I I think it’s this this this if if that were the the
individual’s home no would be be disputing it there was no exit from the room they were in they had a barricaded
door in front of them with people pounding on it that they didn’t know their intention a window was broken
somebody was trying to force their way through that window yep I’m again I’m not at all shocked about the way that it
turned out and uh is she might have been a very lovely Ash might have been a very
lovely person she might have got caught up in you know the peer pressure I see almost all of January 6 like a frat
prank gone wrong right just you know it’s we’re caught up in the moment you
know and it’s you know I in high school I had some you know I got caught up in the moment one time and and and I
threw a rock I shouldn’t have thrown and I I Got High School Insurrection yeah and I and I got I got in some trouble
for it right I threw a rock at a at a visiting Sports team’s
bus uh that my rock didn’t even hit the bus because I can’t throw Rock for
uh but I got in trouble with everybody else that threw rocks right because I got caught up in the moment yeah uh but
in my defense I was 14 right I wasn’t 30 whatever Ashley babbett was right um I
think that was a colossally stupid I’m sorry to say this it was a colossally stupid thing for her to do and I think
the uh individual the capitol policeman who was inside who was who was charged
with the safety of those in that room I’m not at all shocked by the decision that he made would I have shot at at
that exact time in that exact manner I don’t know but I don’t uh I try not to
Second judge people second guess people in that um do you think her family has a
case do you think there’s any case at all for him to be prosecuted um what’s your take on that
whole incident this is going to surprise you and I haven’t I haven’t spoken public I
like surprises about the subject but initially on you know on the night of
January 6 January 7th um I made a decision that I did not want
to represent any of the protesters uh and one of the reasons why
I didn’t want to was because if that police officer had been charged I really
wanted to represent him I I saw it as being a very interesting
case uh and you know is there a case to to prosecute
him based on the standard of cases I’ve seen prosecuted yes there’s absolutely a
case to prosecute him and it would have been an wonderful opportunity to get an
aquid um I’m glad he wasn’t charged so don’t get me wrong I’m very you know
glad that he wasn’t charged for him but had he been charged I would have loved
to try that case because to me I watch a lot of these you know police um
misconduct cases and you know very similar to some of the military cases that I’ve done we
prosecute police officers for decisions that they make in essentially in combat
in a you in a split-second decision that they make under intense pressure and
really a lot of these things that officer did not leave his house that
morning with evil intent that he was going to go murder somebody he left his
his house with the intent of going to do his job and protect people and he made a
decision under intense pressure that you can sit there after the fact you could
have a bunch of lawyers sit around none of whom have ever carried or fired a gun in their lives and try to second guess things and
decide who should go to jail for it you know to me that was such a wonderful case of had he been charged you could
have put the entire system on trial by flipping a lot of the narratives instead
of an unarmed Blackman shot by a white police officer you have an unarmed white
Maga hat wearing girl shot by a black police officer and you could really
defend police officers across this nation and you know what they’ve been
dealing with in a case where you all of a sudden take a lot of the politics reverse it and even remove it
so that we can actually just focus on what what went into that officer’s
decision right so I I I thought that that would have been a great case to try
had doj been stupid enough to try you know it’s uh one of the one of the
reasons that uh some people hate me is because uh I tend to I tend to call out
hypocrisy and uh I asked one individual you know in reference to this incident I
said what if that had been the uh Portland City Hall yeah and the chambers
of Portland City Hall and she’d been wearing a black lives matter t-shirt and waving an antifa flag exact same
scenario yeah I said uh I guarantee guarantee you would have been
cheering that she got shot right Not only would you not be calling for him you would have been calling for him to
get a medal yeah you know and it’s it’s you know this is kind of permeated our whole discussion you know if if you if
you’re gonna be a a hypocrite about it you you can’t you can’t look at things
through the lens of who was on your side versus on on their side you have to look
at the facts the facts of the incident the facts of the case as you would call it uh on face value and I think too many
people because we it’s we’re at such a divisive time in the country right now and there and emotions run so high that
uh I’ve seen so much hypocrisy on both sides of the political aisle and people don’t even know they’re doing it they’re
so caught up in it you know it’s uh my my own um throw my own mom under the bus
uh when January 6th was going on she sent me a text like oh my God like I
can’t believe what I’m seeing blah blah blah and I said yeah this is I know this is no way to talk to your mother I I my
text my reply was what the have you been doing for the last two years like you you can’t suddenly choose
to be outraged you know a police Police substations were set on
fire you know police officers were ambushed in their car yeah you know we
this has been going you know much worse has been going on for two years you can’t you know can’t be selectively
outraged and uh you know I didn’t like watching January 6th occur I didn’t like it I’m like this is a bad this is a bad
look this is not who we this is not who we are um you know this you know you need
to calm the down and then as the images started to come back and it’s like ah posing at Nancy Pelosi’s desk
and walking out with the podium giving a thumbs up and you know guy in the medicine man had I’m like all again you
know the it’s it’s a fraternity PR prank that got out of hand type thing but then you know some of the other footage you
know obviously Ashley Baba getting shot there was you know somebody picked up a trash can and threw it at some officers
there were there was there you know there’s on every side um what do you think so what’s what’s your take
and the time that we have left what’s your take moving forward with all the legal cases that are going on um who do
you think we’re going to see square off against one another in the general election and what if you if you had to
pick winners and losers now what would you
say I really don’t know um I’m I’m the lawyer not the campaign guy yeah I get
you and so you know I I do think that some of these legal cases will have the
unintended effect of boosting Donald Trump’s candidacy I I think and not only
have they done it but it’s at one point I was convinced that they were that was their
sole purpose that they that they wanted to run against him and they’re like oh this you know Dan santis is getting too
popular we got to get Trump back in the news again it’s I mean it is crazy you know
some of these things um but yeah as as to where the election goes um you know
like I said I’m I’m a lawyer I’m going to defer on that you know I I
look I enjoyed representing Donald Trump uh I got along with him
personally um I don’t agree with everything he does I don’t agree I agree with a lot of his policies I don’t agree
with a lot with with some of them um I don’t take a position publicly as to
whether he should you know run again or or be be president again um you know I’m
I am the lawyer you know I when I left that case it was a very
difficult personal decision that I made uh and it was something my wife and I sat and talked about and and I
ultimately said I want this case but I don’t need
this case I don’t need it for the you know the billable hour you know I have
other clients it’s not a financial thing I don’t need this case for you know
media attention you know I think I’m I’m already somewhat fairly well
established um you know as far as public profile wise I don’t need this case I want this
case because it’s important issues that need to be handled correctly
and and and smartly uh and it’s and it’s momentous
issues that I would like to be a part of and quite frankly I love being in the
biggest you know fights out there but ultimately and this is something I’ve
talked about publicly I CH I chose to step away because as much as I wanted
the case uh I was not able to fight it in the way that I believed it should be
fought sure um and so that’s why I didn’t need to be there um but
yeah I I I’m not going to say anything you know for or against his campaign because that’s
that’s not my place um I will you know give very strong
opinions as to whether he should go to jail but whether he should go to the Oval Office you know that is for the
American people to decide and my hope is that is accurately
counted yeah I guess at this point I think that’s uh that’s all we can hope for but it’s uh
this I’m not looking forward to 2024 I’m not I would like this election to end in
a way that gives finality yeah yes I I would like it it needs it needs to be
very whoever wins it needs to be decisive and there need to be no
lingering questions so we can we can move the on correct we whoever is
sworn in that January next January needs to have the entire country confident
that they are the duly elected president yeah nobody nobody should enter the Oval
Office with half of the country thinking that you stole it yeah because you’re
starting off from a position where half of the people that you’re you’re governing think you’re illegitimate I
mean that that’s something that George W bush dealt with it’s something that Donald Trump dealt with it’s something that Joe Biden is dealing with yeah yeah
so and unfortunately I see you know out of the you know the Two Front Runners that we
have now I was very interested to see on on uh on Fox on New Year’s Eve uh
Kennedy’s prediction was that this is it’s going to be Haley versus Nome uh I don’t yeah that would be
interesting I don’t but I I I think that I think who we’ve got is who we’ve got I do think this is gonna come down to the
the rematch of of trump V Biden I think Biden getting pulled what’s that I could
foresee Biden getting pulled yeah late due to complications with the hunter
Biden case I could potentially see that leading to a um I I I could I could see
him going out and this is something that I’ve kind of thought in from time to
time is that if if they are gonna pull Biden what
they’re the the best way to do that is is figure out the absolute last minute
that they can because that keeps the crosshairs on him you know it’s like basically he’s like he’s bolted from
cover and the snipers are zooming in on him where you got somebody coming if you have Newsome or somebody else coming
around in a flanking maneuver you don’t want the fire to be on him right correct so uh I think that’s a possibility and
the way I would foresee that happening is uh a a speech not dissimilar to the
Lynden B Johnson I will not seek reelection speech basically saying as of
today I have signed I am pardoning my son and this is my last act and I’m and
because of this I’m not because because we it’s the fact that he’s gonna pardon his son is I I don’t think any everybody
knows that’s what’s in the cards and his brother yeah yeah Hunter Hunter Biden is yeah and his brother Hunter Biden is not
going to jail yeah uh it’s just not happening so Joe will pardon him and I
think and and it’s funny that you say that because I’ve actually i’ I’ve kind of thought to myself that for that
reason they should slow the prosecution but but it may not make a
difference because Gerald Ford pardon Nixon before any charges were levied
right you know with the same thing so you know he oh yeah no I mean do the same thing pardons can come at any time
pardons can come pre pre-charged pardons can come you know post death right you
um the only thing you can’t do is you can’t pardon somebody before they commit the crime right you can’t say I’m pardoning you for the bank robbery
you’re committing tomorrow yeah so but yeah no pardons before trial happen happen all the time yeah not not all the
time but they do happen yeah I I’d be really interested to see it’s it’s I
mean we’ve we’ve always known everyone with an IQ new room temperature has always known the KL is not not fit for
the office um and I think even even Democrats now will admit that like you
don’t even have to get a beer into them and they’ll admit that but how they what’s that if they wait yeah yeah until
after the primaries even yeah after the convention and then he
resigns the party could then plug in somebody like Michelle Obama right it doesn’t it’s not it’s not
like he steps down while in office in the line of succession right then right
exactly then it becomes a part of thing but how they’re going to keep her quiet is you know
unless I mean she’s I kind of feel like she’s just smart enough to know how stupid she is so maybe so maybe she
knows maybe she knows that there’s no way she could handle it and that you know or or maybe they’d have to reward
you know maybe the out for this is yeah it’s we’re gonna yeah there’s going to be some type of
ambassadorship uh you know for you or for your husband you know you know to to
keep you well healed you know for the for the rest of your days who knows what kind of you know backdoor dealings are
going on but I do think if we’re if if this does come down to the rematch um I think uh I think Trump is
incapable of of uniting the country not because of just simply because of what
he’s become as a symbol right that like he he could literally get up there and
say say I’m going to sign every piece of legislation that Democrats I’m only I’m going to switch parties I’m going to
work with them but he’s become such a divisive symbol right you know he could show up at your at at a at a democrat’s
front door with a bunt cake and and they they wouldn’t eat it uh so he’s he’s
incapable and Biden is unwilling right you know he’s demonstr oh I’m I’m the party for everybody and now every single
speech the ultra Maga super mega you know whatever
uh and I don’t know how much of that is is that he’s an idiot and how much of it is you know that he’s too is a
narcissist uh because the two of them are a terrible combination but uh Tim
brother thank you so much for your time it’s you know we’ve gone longer than I normally go but it’s and and I apologize
for that because I talked way too much and I recognize that when I have you back I will I will I will I will dial
down the percentage that I interject I promise you um where uh what El what do
you have going on right now where can people follow you if somebody wants to hire you where can they get in touch
with you uh so I’m you know I I have my own firm parlor Law Group I have about
15 attorneys that work for me um you know www.p parator lawgroup.com
uh and I’m also on Instagram at T parator or uh or the firm’s account
which I think is app paratory Law Group uh and you know I’m
I’m in and out of courtrooms I’m I’m getting into fights I it’s what I enjoy doing it’s what I what I love doing and
so you know I have I have a fairly decent amount of interesting cases right now I’m fighting
a case up in Maine uh related to the intersection between state and federal
uh marijuana laws um I have you a couple of cases in in DC um you in the
investigative phase and you I’m all always uh you know got one foot in the mil military courtrooms to you know mix
it up over there um yeah just looking looking for good fights and getting into
them awesome that’s that’s a great philosophy uh everybody make sure you check uh check out Tim on social media
uh he’s recently been on on Shan Ryan’s podcast uh which most of you probably listen to since it’s a much higher tier
podcast than this one uh so make sure you check that out uh for a more in-depth uh legal analysis of all the
things that we talked about definitely uh worth your time brother thank you so much again for being on hopefully we’ll
have you on again I know there’s going to be a lot of contentious legal issues down the road for this nation and uh I
definitely want to have you on to discuss those so looking forward to that I’m gonna close today with a quote from
the late great Daniel Webster who said the contest for ages has been to rescue
Liberty from the grasp of executive power remember that everybody and until next time live life like a
warrior