Parlatore Law Group Founder, EX Trump Lawyer & Trial Attorney | TALK4 Podcast #108

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how’s it going guys just before we start this  episode today I’m not going to take up much of   your time because I know you want to get straight  over to the episode but just want to say thank you  

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this journey I’m on SO guys thank you and  without further Ado let’s get over to the episode how’s it going guys welcome to episode 107  of talk 4 the quickfire podcast where we ask four  

great questions to unique and interesting people  behind the mic today is your host Lou scopion  

and let me just introduce our incredible guest for  today Tim parori who’s going to be answering a few  

questions today Tim how you doing today man and uh  welcome to the show I’m good I’m good thanks for  

having me yeah I’m uh I have to say I mentioned  it to you at the start of the uh you know before  

we jumped on here super super stoked to to have  you on and an industry I haven’t touched on yet  

so really Keen to ask a few great questions here  today and before we jump into those questions in  

kind of a 30 to 60 second is sort of format  elevator pitch Style Just quickly Who You Are  

your day job is and just a little intro and kind  of snapshot into your day-to-day job if that’s  

okay sure uh Tim paror I’m the managing partner  of parlor Law Group uh I have about 15 attorneys  

that work for me it’s a cloud-based Law Firm so  built from the ground up with h all remote uh  

and my personal specialty is criminal defense  and civil litigation uh yeah I never really  

specialized in any one particular kind of case I  just specialize in high takes litigation you know  

cases that are weird uh cases that are unique  and uh and difficult and so you know wherever  

there’s a big fight in a courtroom that’s that’s  where I like to be yeah I mean looking at some  

of those past clients you’ve had really really  top of the food chain in in terms of big cases  

so I feel like I’m talking to a a proper Legend  from this space but I always like to kind of take  

a look into the backstory of people first before  we go into the current jobs so um before you know  

I feel like we’d be reminded not to talk a little  bit about the Navy career and get an idea of kind   of like where you came from and how you got into  the industry you’re in now so I understand you’re  

a Navy guy can you kind of walk us through that  part of your life a bit quickly and what you did   there and just kind of take us through to like  the start of your legal career how did it all  

come about for you sure you know it’s kind of a  you know it is a full circle uh for me everything  

did build on one another so you I started off  my career in the Navy uh I went to the US Naval  

Academy undergrad graduated glass of 2002 um 911  happened when we were seniors and so we were the  

first class since Vietnam to graduate during a  time of War uh 21 days after graduation I got on  

a guided missile Cruiser and went straight over  to the war zone uh I did two deployments on USS  

Normandy as a surface Warfare officer and you  know first deployment we were doing primarily  

um you know air control and uh strikes into to  Afghanistan and also um you know Oil Embargo  

enforcement in the Persian Gulf is pre- Iraq War  uh second deployment we did a lot of um counter  

piracy operations off of the coast of Somalia uh  and I left partway through that deployment uh to  

come back because my time in the Navy was up and  so I went back and showed up at law school um and  

started at Brooklyn law and so that was really  the transition uh it was kind of a a quick uh  

transition I showed up in law school I sat down in  the auditorium and you know the dean is welcoming  

us to law school and saying you know law school  is very different from college this is this is  

not like what you’re used to this next year will  be the most stressful experience of your lives  

and I just sat there and I looked around the room  and I realized every single kid in this Auditorium  

actually believed what she said but I did not and  you know and it wasn’t it wasn’t you know compared  

to deployments and everything it wasn’t um you  I did my time in law school um I worked pretty  

much full-time uh for a for a lawyer for criminal  defense attorney Eddie Hayes while I was there um  

and you know got into a lot of great cases you  know there and really learned you know on the  

streets how the criminal justice system works uh  went from there to uh to another job working for  

a solo practitioner um and you know got to work  with a lot of these real Legends of the criminal  

defense bar in New York City you know I got to I  got to spend time and learn how to practice law  

from all of the greats who tried the Jong Gotti  trials for example you know all the great mob  

trials back in the 80s uh you know these were my  mentors and so you know Ron fet Bruce Cutler um  

Eddie Hayes Jeff Hoffman George San Angelo all  of these you know men are the ones that really  

taught me how to practice uh so I eventually  went out on my own uh for my own practice um I  

did that for a few years I I partnered actually  with Bruce Cutler for a couple of years he was   John’s main attorney uh and then went back out on  my own and then eventually uh joined a bigger firm  

um and kind of took my skills that I’d learned  doing a lot of this you know organized crime   and you all form of you know various you know  criminal activity and took it to a bigger firm  

I did that for about three years to get into  more white collar stuff uh before leaving that  

to start by own interesting um what was the what  was the spark for you then in that industry that  

kind of got you to at least pequ your interest in  going in that direction because you know from the   people I’ve spoken to in the military and guys  who’ve got out the military seems like the kind  

of at least like the flow that they tend to go  down initially coming out of the military tends   to be the private sector and defense and security  and Consulting so what was the kind of the motion  

there and what was the what was the motivation  for you going into the law stuff is that always   being something that’s really been interesting to  you yeah talk me through that so when I was at the  

Academy um my goal was to spend an entire career  in the Navy or or really the Marine Corps was what  

I was thinking about at the time I was I spent the  first two years there really focusing on trying to  

become a Marine Corp infantry officer uh and two  things happened to really change my my perspective  

on that uh one was you know the summer before  senior year uh we we spent the summer down in  

quano Virginia um doing training with the Marine  Corps um you know assulting Villages doing all  

this uh you know great training and I learned that  a marine infantry officer I would be mediocre you  

know I wasn’t going to be the best I I could do  the job I think I could do it well but I was not  

going to be the best at it um and this of course  still pre 911 um and so that happened and then  

pretty much simultaneous to that my best friend  got in trouble um Dan He it was a practical joke  

that had gotten totally out of control and it had  you know gone from something that really should  

have been just a silly little joke to where he was  facing being separated from the Naval Academy and  

his Nable career being done wow before it even  um and so he came to me and he said you know Tim  

what can I do uh and so we just sat there and I  was very good at regulations and so we just sat   there went through the regulations and figured out  whyatt didn’t fit into what he was charged with  

but why it did fit into something of a much lower  severity And I said Okay so this is what you need  

to say you need to say I didn’t do this but I did  do this and he looks at me he says that’s great  

I have no idea what you just said um can you come  with me so we went up and to meet with the um with  

the Common’s Staff Judge Advocate uh which is a  military lawyer and we walk in and he he’s looking  

at us like you know what the hell are these two  kids doing and Dan says you know sir I wanted to  

speak to you about my case present something for  the Admiral to consider he says okay well what’s  

he here for he’s like well I don’t know how to  explain it so I need him to explain it for me so  

so I did and and I sat down with this Lieutenant  Commander and I laid the whole thing out and he   looked at it and he said you know that makes a  lot of sense I’m going to go talk to the Admiral  

he does the Admiral agrees they knock it down to  a lower level discipline he goes to the Battalion  

officer he pleads guilty he has to you know March  in a square for like 100 hours carrying a rifle  

uh but he doesn’t get separated and today he is  about to take command of the US’s zumalt which is  

one of the most advanced warships in the entire  US Navy wow so that experience made me realize  

I’m really good at this and I really enjoy this  and I can make a difference with this you know I  

just saved my best friend’s career or I could go  be a mediocre infantry officer so that’s that’s  

kind of where I I made the shift and I said okay  I want to be a military lawyer and so I tried to  

figure out because it’s not something you can do  straight out the academy and I figured out if I go   on a ship as a surface Warfare officer that’s kind  of the fastest path towards lateral transferring  

you know going to law school and becoming a Jag or  Judge Advocate General officer in the Navy and so  

that’s the path that I chose and and I and I did  the first several steps of that right up to the  

point of actually getting selected when I was not  selected so I then you know I had an opportunity  

to get out and go to law school on my own so I  said okay I’ll go out go to law school on my own  

and apply to come back in and I applied several  times to come back in as a Jag officer and I was  

rejected several times to come back in as a Jag  officer so that’s that was kind of as I was doing  

that and you know working in New York City and  you know really learning more about you know the  

New York City criminal defense world as the Navy  was rejecting me this other world was you know was  

calling to me and so that’s when I started getting  into that and and honestly in in retrospect became  

a far better trial lawyer as a result really  really interesting story and I can totally I  

can totally see how that motivation would push you  to going down that that route and before before we  

dig into the kind of the other stuff the law stuff  I think something that I heard on on the SRS show  

that you spoke about kind of at least gave me a  little bit of clarity into your industry and I’d  

like to just go into this just quickly before we  go into the questions we live in a very judgmental  

world where people will kind of judge anyone just  because of any sort of like an affiliation with a  

name that they dislike and obviously you’ve  represented former president Trump and many  

prolific figures you know you did work in the  Eddie Gallagher case I wanted to just get you   just to quickly kind of talk us through what the  ethics are behind the work that you do and how do  

you kind of manage the preference personal bias  and kind of personal emotions towards the clients  

that you have and if you personally have like  any association with a particular party because  

what you said on the SRS show really gave me an  insight into how you separate personal life from  

professional work so how do you manage all that  and can you just talk our guests through that   too so we can get an idea of how it works for you  sure and you gota you got to remember this goes  

back to what I was just saying about the people  that were my mentors um John Gotti’s lawyers okay  

they were not gangsters you know people tried to  paint them that way but they were not gangsters   they were lawyers as lawyers we have an ethical  obligation to protect the rights of our clients  

period and that doesn’t matter whether the client  is somebody we like somebody we hate somebody we  

agree with somebody we disagree with and so it is  that ethical obligation um that is really at the  

Forefront and so do I agree with all my clients  no do I like all my clients I like a lot of my  

clients it’s one of the beauties of private  defense is that I can reject clients that I   don’t like but you know ultimately my job is  to make sure that their rights are protected  

and make sure that the government is doing its  job and following the rules and so you know this  

was something back back when I was doing more  of the you organized crime type work you know   people would ask me well how could you defend you  know bad people well yeah it’s not just about you  

know defending you know so-called bad people it’s  about ensuring that the constitution is followed  

okay because there are constitutional rights  that every single one of us have and when the  

government is out there doing what they do if they  don’t respect those rights and if they’re not held  

accountable for their violations just because you  may not like this defendant what does that mean  

for the future if you say okay you know what we  don’t like you know John Gotti or Donald Trump or  

whoever so go ahead and violate the constitution  there you’ve not given them a license to do that  

to everybody you’ve given a license to do it  to you and so yeah I I’m going to talk about  

one particular case here where I represented a guy  who I really did not uh he was charged with with  

drug dealing um and I got him a good deal and I I  told him you know you really should take this deal  

and he says nope I don’t want to take it I I don’t  think they have it I want to go through Discovery  

sure enough they give me Discovery and I look at  it and I see that they screwed up on the warrant  

and as I’m sitting there reading it I’m saying  there a really good motion to suppress based on  

the misconduct in this warrant but if I win that  a guy that I don’t like who really did do what he  

is alleged to have done is going to walk free and  I thought about it because I thought I don’t need  

to make this motion then I stopped myself and  I said this has all of a sudden become the most  

important motion that I’ve ever written in my life  because the moment that I make a decision not to  

defend the client’s constitutional rights because  I don’t like them is the moment that I need to  

quit and find a new line of work because when  lawyers pick and choose whose rights are worth  

defending the system fails so ultimately the  judge uh had less compunction than I did about  

throwing them in jail anyway but um but that that  kind of really guides you know how I operate and  

so I do love taking on cases that have you know  significant political ramifications uh yes a lot  

of my clients have been on you know the right side  of the aisle um do I sit on the right side of the  

aisle not necessarily uh I will tell you this  I do not agree with either political party and  

so you know therefore I don’t take a position on  that kind of stuff you know when it comes to you  

know for example representing president Trump and  and I still do a lot of TV interviews where people  

ask me about the case and I’m very clear that I’m  the lawyer I have nothing to do with the campaign  

my job is to talk about whether he should go to  jail whether he should go to the Oval Office is  

somebody else’s topic to talk about not mine and  so therefore I am comfortable I’ve represented  

people on both sides of the political aisle  and I’m very comfortable with that if Hunter   Biden or you know Bob Mendez called me tomorrow I  would happily talk to them as well so I mean that  

and that’s that’s the philosophy that I put  down through my firm and you know my firm is  

very diverse we have people on all sides of the  political Spectrum we have people that have you  

know voted for Hillary voted for Biden voted  for Trump all across the board in fact a lot  

of my people I don’t even know who they voted for  because it doesn’t matter what matters is do they  

fight each case based on the facts evidence and  law solely this a dangerous job personally to  

you something I’ve I’ve thought about kind  of even just a few minutes for the podcast   is obviously these are the ethics that you abide  by and this is what makes you a great lawyer but  

people aren’t always don’t always appreciate that  especially if it’s with someone that they dislike  

or if it’s got personal attachments like for  example a victim’s family have you ever found  

that this job has got dangerous for you on a  personal level by representing someone taking a case have I received death threats certainly  plenty of times um every time I go on MSNBC I get  

several emails from their uh from their viewers  talking about how I should lose my license and   be killed um do I take any of those seriously  no you know I think that you know they’re one  

of the drawbacks of you know social media and the  connectiveness of the world is now that everybody  

you feels like they have a voice and so you  have a lot of what I call keboard Commandos   who are perfectly consent content to sit there  in their apartment and you know type a message  

to me but are they gonna actually walk up to  me on the street no they’re not um you know  

I yeah I will say say this you know you asked me  about my political affiliations um you know I am  

a supporter of the Second Amendment um so you  know that is you know one position that I take  

that I you know that I certainly exercise for the  purpose of if one of those people does decide to  

come out from behind the keyboard but um no I  haven’t really had a problem you know it’s it’s  

something that but but it’s also something that I  I try to maintain at all times you know the air of  

reasonableness and you know that’s why even when  talking about Donald Trump you know I go on MSNBC  

I go on CN I go on CNN probably more than anywhere  else I go on Fox News I go on these different  

networks on all sides of the spectrum and I’m not  sitting there talking about you know it’s a Witch  

Hunt or election interference or all that kind of  stuff I’m talking about the case and so you know  

that that has you know I think served me quite  well in separating me from some some people who  

have you know gotten a lot more into um you know  bluring the lines between legal and campaign yeah  

great points very well put um so on the show I  tried to well I mean I’m aware that I have what’s  

clearly a very diverse range of audience members  from the people who message in the people who talk  

about it and really the concept of the show is  kind of four questions for unique and interesting  

people and getting everyone who kind of Tunes in  here to Come Away with something so if we kind of  

take a dive to start with into the shallow end of  the work that you do um just so everyone’s on the  

on the same page of this you’ve worked with very  prolific people and powerful people can you give  

us maybe a bit of insight into what comes with  the job then so how do you come to choose or  

reject cases and clients and kind of what are like  the career risks that you face by taking on a case  

maybe just kind of give us like a little bit of  the brief sort of flow chart in in um in how you  

approach a case and regardless of the client so  yeah just a bit of info into what it takes to be  

you sure so the biggest thing for me when uh When  selecting a client is do they have a legitimate  

case um you know there are a lot of lawyers out  there that um you know they they will take on any  

case or you know take on cases for people because  they like them and then they’ll do things based  

on what the client wants as opposed to what makes  sense and what they know as a lawyer uh some will  

do things in fact I just had a conversation about  this earlier today with one of my attorneys uh   that I was mentoring on something that there’s a  big difference between what we can do as lawyers  

and what we should do as lawyers and so when I’m  evaluating a case I’m looking obviously at the  

facts and I’m looking at the law and I’m saying  what can be done can I actually help this person  

you know and I’ve I’ve rejected plenty of cases  because the answer being look you know obviously  

I’m in this business to make money but I don’t  want to do it unfairly and for you to pay me  

to do this case that I know right up front we’re  going to lose I am not going to be able to get you  

what you need and it’s one of the reasons why at  intake level one of the first questions that I ask  

clients always after you know hearing their story  is what does Victory look like for you and because  

I want to understand what their expectations  and their hopes are and if that’s something   that I think is realistic then then it’s something  that I’m interested in uh now realistic doesn’t  

necessarily mean easy um you know certainly when  I’m doing criminal cases um you know they all  

have the same sense of victory victory looks like  being found not guilty uh and you know certainly  

you for example Eddie Gallagher that was a very  very difficult task so I don’t shy away from it  

because it’s difficult I shy away from it if I  think it’s impossible you know and that’s that  

that’s the thing that really um um you know speaks  to me also you know there’s an element of I want

to be careful how I say this depending on the  case I want to believe in it you I want to have  

I want to have some sense that there is a good  um a good defense here and so um and that means  

a whole bunch of different things it doesn’t  necessarily mean it certainly doesn’t mean come   in and try and convince me that you’re innocent  okay because that that’s not not what it means at  

all it means is there a legitimate defense that’s  worthwhile um and so if you come in you say look  

I you know I’m a child molester and I want you  to try and you know get me off on this that’s  

not something I I I I enjoy it’s not something  I would take off so um I also like things to be  

interesting you know there are lawyers out there  that do a volume practice where they do a lot of  

cases that are all the same you know like they do  nothing but DWI defense I did a little bit of that  

early in my career it’s boring you know they’re  all the same so um yes I like something it’s  

intellectually stimulating yeah it’s very it’s a  very interesting subject and I think one of the  

really kind of one of the real subjects I wanted  to to ask a question about here is um something I  

want to dig into is when I hear about something  that’s happening over in the states politically  

or here or anywhere where do I go where do I hear  about this I hear about it in the news right I go  

to Wall Street Journal or I you know take a flick  over to Twitter and see what people are saying not  

to believe it but to see what they’re saying and  you are someone who has to sift through what you  

actually said in your own words not personally but  as you know cooporation you have to sift through  

millions of documents ultimately you see the facts  and you structure defense based upon facts records  

and proof what do I need to know and what do our  listeners need to know about what the news says  

and social media versus what the truth actually is  especially in cases that involve powerful people  

so what are you seeing on paper in front of you  on your desk versus what’s being notified from  

Apple news or something on your phone like how  does that look how is that different everything  

you’re reading is written by somebody that has  an agenda okay that that’s the most important  

piece here and when I read yeah I I I tend not  to read any articles about cases that I’m doing  

when I’m in the middle of of trial um because  it’s it’s a waste of my time it’s just going to   aggravate me um but you know sometimes it happens  and uh usually because people throw an article at  

me and say hey Tim look at this look how look how  wrong they got it you know but it’s amazing to me  

when you’re in court and fighting and then the  articles that come out later that night about  

whatever allegedly happened in that Court room  depending on the publication depending on their  

Personal Agenda you’ll hear something totally  different from what actually happened and it’s  

not that they it’s not that they’re fabricating  it’s that they are choosing the parts that they  

find worthwhile to support their conclusion and  they ignore the parts that are not um so you know  

for example I when during the Edie Gallagher case  one of the witnesses came in and on Direct he told  

this you know very coherent Well rehear story  and on cross-examination he totally fell apart  

completely fell apart couldn’t remember even the  basics and all the newspaper articles talked about  

his answers to the prosecutor’s questions and they  omitted everything that he said in in response to  

my questions only one publication published an  accurate account and the next day you know I I  

walked out of the courthouse after and they have  all the bank of microphones set up and they you  

know they want me to answer questions and they’re  all shouting questions I said all right before I   start I read all your articles about yesterday’s  day of trial that’s something I normally do but  

somebody threw them at me and I I read them took  a couple of minutes I’m going to take the first  

question from you because you’re the only person  that actually accurately reported what happened  

yesterday they were all upset at me for saying  that on TV he was upset at me for calling him  

out as being the only honest journalist there I  have said everybody in one in one you know move  

but so what I do is you know on my phone if if  I show you the you know the news app I keep a  

vast array of news apps and if I want to know what  happened I will read both sides of it and if you  

read for example you know if if there’s some  speech uh that was given and you read the CNN  

article about it and the Fox News article about  it between the two of them you’re going to get   something resembling the truth or you skip that  go on YouTube and see if you can find the source t

so the news media in general um you there’s  agendas to it so definely see you have to  

be very careful with with reading any of that  stuff and yeah and it’s something that I deal   with a lot with you know when I’m called on  a case because you know this this happens all  

the time where something will happen on the  news and my wife will look at me and she’ll   say that guy’s going to call you in the next 20  24 hours and whenever she says that they usually  

do um but what you’ve heard in the news versus  the story they actually tell you usually very

different it’s interesting isn’t it how these  things can change and this is exactly why I  

wanted to dig into it with you quite a bit  and you’re right you do need to listen to   both sides of the story and you can probably  find like most things have an element of the  

correct truth in there and then you have to  kind of draw like the parallels between a few   sources and then like you said go find the source  material because when it gets recycled enough The  

Narrative changes doesn’t it it it does and  and here’s the other thing is that when when  

a publication takes a position on something  they don’t like to admit that they’re wrong  

and so whatever the initial article is that’s  the narrative for the rest of the case and so  

it’s one of the reasons why you know unlike  a lot of attorneys you know so many attorneys  

they love to say no comment I never say  no comment because from my perspective  

if I can affect what that first article says  then I’m going to affect what the narrative  

is throughout the entire case yeah even if I can  pull it back to a new neutral position of saying  

prosecution said this but the defense attorney  said this even if I can pull them back to that  

neutral position that neutral stance is what  is going to carry through to the end of the

case see actually I’ll give you a great example  here I represented the three guys who parachuted  

off of One World Trade Center a few years ago  and it was a it was a media circus case in New  

York City and what happened in that case is the  police were leaking to the media that they were  

going to arrest them you know later that week  and so I got a I got a reporter that called me  

saying hey the police are telling me that they’re  going to you know arrest this guy later this week   um would you like to comment and I said sure and  I told her the whole story and ordinarily think  

about every article you’ve ever ever read about  an arrest every article you’ve ever read 90% of  

it is the prosecution says this 10% down at the  bottom defense attorney couldn’t be reach for  

comment defense attorney wouldn’t comment defense  attorney gave a short comment 9010 the article  

came out the next day 9010 but it was the District  Attorney’s Office didn’t comment and so we went  

into that trial where the the media narrative  had been said that these guys were folk Heroes  

and everybody loved what they did and you know we  put the video on YouTube the helmet cam video and  

so they were such a disadvantage because when we  got into that courtroom everybody the public the  

media the jury pool they were all in favor of  my guys nice nice fil cool I mean that’s pretty  

cool that they would jump off that though that  must have been a fun case to work with they must   have been a a pretty crazy bunch of guys right oh  they were great they were great it was it was one  

of the funniest cases I’ve ever tried and uh  in front of the same judge who has the Trump  

um you know uh case in Manhattan now um it was a  incredibly funny case you I had the witnesses last  

laughing I had the judge laughing at one point the  jury was laughing throughout it was a great case  

have you um okay so the kind of last two parts  of the podcast tend to be actionable stuff for  

people and everything but kind of while we’re on  the subject now have you got any funny stories  

man have you have you got a like a crackup story  from one of these cases that you just think you  

know what that was just that required a different  kind of approach that worked out in a hilarious  

way any any stories from your time there that’s  going to give our listeners a little bit of a a   chuckle before we go into actionable stuff sure  well okay good example is that base jumper case  

so these there was no question they did it  okay they broke in the building they climbed   to the top they jumped off with parachutes they  totally did it um they were guilty of misdemeanors  

trespassing of base jumping but what the district  attorney tried to do is they tried to charge him  

with burglary which in in New York state law  burglary is unlawfully entering or remaining  

in a structure with intent to commit a crime  therein yeah they unlawfully entered or remain  

that’s that’s trespassing with intent to commit  a crime base jumping is is also a crime so they  

figured hey we’ll take two misdemeanors wrap  them up into a felony that has seven years in jail except intend to commit a crime therein  therein means inside the building base jumping  

by its very nature is there out it’s outside  the building and so I turned this two week  

trial which really just turns on the question  of is the roof inside or outside of the building  

I turned it completely around on him and just  tortured the government for it because you know  

they brought in all these detectives to show you  know we have this you know multi-billion Ring Of  

Steel security system with security cameras  everywhere and here’s where they landed and  

here’s where they ran and here’s where they got  in the car and then we have license plate readers   and so we we read all the license plates and  that’s how we found them detective how many of  

those cameras are facing in well none you don’t  have any video of them getting in the building  

do you no well wouldn’t that be important to you  to know how they got into the building well yeah  

it would it’s a number one terrorist Target in  the world right yes well what did you do to try   and find out how they got in the building well  we couldn’t really do anything so you spent all  

this time trying to find them after they left  wouldn’t a security system be more effective  

at keeping people out well yeah and we set the  theme with that and that the prosecution just  

kept getting stupider and stupider with it and  the jury kept getting more and more offended by   it and they put this guy on this detective who  had recovered my client’s log book and so he’s  

reading from the log book that the prosecutor  wanted him to read from any entry that sounded   dangerous um by the way they’re all dangerous  base jumping but and so I’ve had a few on the  

show they’re crazy right on this date water  landing this date tree Landing you know this  

one parachute Landing fall uh this one post came  out and so I’m just going through each one of them   with them like what does that mean what does tree  Landing mean I guess they landed in the trees was  

that what was intended I don’t know so is it a  mishap I don’t know this one parachute Landing  

fold do you know what that means no I don’t I  guess it means he fell well isn’t it a landing  

technique I don’t know it is a landing technique  uh in fact it’s the first landing technique you  

learned in Airborne school um post came out what  does that mean well I don’t know well what’s a  

post I don’t know was it part of the skydiving  rig I don’t know is it part of the building I  

don’t know over there see in the front row that  reporter over there from the New York Post was  

it her the New York Post sent somebody out and he  starts laughing CLE I don’t think that was it that  

is what it is the New York Post did come out and  then you know so we went through all these things  

and I finally wait a minute several of those  entries in there it says location Waldo right  

he says yes detective Where is Waldo the whole  courtroom loses it at that point including the  

judge Prosecutor’s bad at me but that’s okay and  the detective is sitting there laughing he’s like  

I I I I don’t know like can you please explain to  the jury what investigative steps you took to find

Waldo I give up I don’t know so he leaves um the  truth is Waldo is a a a tall tower Upstate New  

York that’s painted red and and white stripes um I  walk out of the courtroom because we take a lunch  

break and the detective is standing outside the  courtroom waiting for me which is usually a really  

bad thing by the way um I walk out I see him I’m  like uh oh detective walks up to me he says G I’ve  

been a cop for 26 years I’ve never laughed so hard  in a courtroom as that I need your card that was  

great that’s unbelievable no [ __ ] did you ever  you ever work for him after that no no he never  

called me I mean luckily but yeah it’s you got to  take these cases and make it a look at it a little  

bit differently you and make it entertaining yeah  because ultimately that’s what it is trial a trial  

is is theater it’s storytelling you know it’s not  theater like fictional storytelling you have to  

tell the truth you have to present a factual  case but if you can keep the jury engaged and  

keep them interested and build trust then they  will vote you know they will consider all of your  

arguments and they’ll vote more likely in your  favor if you sit there like a stone the whole  

time and just read from your binder and lecture  them they’re not going to take you as seriously  

yeah yeah really really interesting thanks for  uh thanks for sharing that that that’s great I  

mean you you’ve clearly you clearly got your job  down to a te um as I mentioned we kind of go into  

like a bit of a an actionable stage of the podcast  towards the end where we can actually everyone can   take a little something away from it obviously  we’ve had a good shock at the stories and we uh  

we’ve probably got a good insight into now what  you do and how it works but read us are read us  

are right so ask someone listening in right now  or me ask the host just everyone in general you  

know I’m no legal head at all and I doubt many  people listening in probably are but I think we  

have like a very very barebone probably idea of  like what what our rights are as people so what’s  

like the basic handbook would you say of like  rights and barebone legal personal protection  

stuff that everyone needs to know as like okay  this is the chalk block this is what you need to  

know you need to know this you need to know this  you need to know this for that essentially going   into the future where nowadays as we’ve seen in  your career you know with the Dallas Alexander  

case and everything and just censorship freedom  of speech it’s threatened and the state of the  

world seems to just be changing like the wind  so if you could kind of give everyone like a   little pocket book of what everyone needs to know  what would you say are kind of like those top few  

things in terms of legal protection and stuff  that people should should have an idea about so  

I mean the big thing is you know it’s all it’s  all in the Bill of Rights of the Constitution  

if if you read those amendments for the most  part that’s going to tell you most of of what  

you need to know um you know the First Amendment  you know the Second Amendment the third amendment  

you don’t really have to spend as much time on um  I I like to tease other lawyers but you know you  

think there are any Third Amendment implications  here and everybody’s always stared at me because   everybody totally forgets what the third amendment  is and it’s it is you know about the quartering of  

troops that we you should not be forced to quarter  troops in your house um but aside from that one  

you know fourth fifth six are the ones that I deal  with you know the most um but to put it even more  

simply uh and and you actually said it right in  the beginning you said read us our rights um it’s  

exactly what the Miranda warnings say but take  it seriously you have the right to remain silent  

shut up don’t talk okay there is nothing you can  say that’s going to help you you’re being read  

your Miranda rights because you under custodial  interrogation you’re not free to leave and they  

want you to say something that’s incriminating  they’re not giving you an opportunity to talk   your way out of it there is nothing to be gained  from speaking you have anything you say can and  

will be used against you that’s true you have the  right to an attorney yes exercise that if you’re  

really worried about you know and cops love to  do the whole you know well if you have nothing  

to hide why would you why wouldn’t you talk to us  if you’re really worried about that which by the  

way you know that’s a trick you’re really worried  about it just say look I’d love to help you guys  

but unfortunately I’ve I’ve read too many other  stories and and things I’d feel more comfortable  

talking to you if I had an attorney if you really  want just say that and then the attorney can come  

in and say come on guys you’re not talking to him  get out of here you know and so I mean that but  

that’s the big thing is exercise your right to  remain silent exercise your right to an attorney  

and get the best attorney that you can attorneys  are one of those things where the quality W varies  

widely um with certain exceptions attorneys really  are one of those things where you get what you pay  

for um you know if you’re paying a very low  rate for an attorney you have to wonder why  

is it because that attorney you know is desperate  for work is it because they run a volume practice  

where they charge much more reasonable rate  because they have you know so many cases um  

you know do they take you know you could take 10  10 cases on at a time for one price or you could   take a 100 cases on for much less but then you  only spend the tenth of the time um and I say like  

like I said there are certain exceptions to that  um but that’s that’s the basics of it okay so you  

know I hope I don’t ruffle any feathers with this  question at all it’s just I’m gonna put at least  

what I believe is a common belief out to you and  see what you make of it and at least maybe maybe   it’s not common I don’t know this is my this is  my understanding of like the thing as someone who  

doesn’t really know too much on the subject but  from what I’ve kind of heard what I’ve seen either  

kind of like in joking situations or whatever with  friends and everything it kind of sounds a little   bit like when you come into law and courtrooms and  lawyers and stuff when you have someone who’s very  

rich or powerful or corporations that are rich  powerful they have legal teams which are at least  

described this very strong and if you’re someone  like myself or something who can’t have or like  

doesn’t have Deep Pockets to you know fish out  for very expensive lawyers um it doesn’t sound  

like you’re going to get very far with with that  you’re going to get basically whitewashed out of   uh you know out of the out of the courtroom so I  guess what I kind of want to get a little bit of  

clarity on is for everyone listening is to some  degree is like kind of going what you just said  

there is it slightly pay is it slightly payto  playay when you come into are there two systems  

of Justice in this country the answer is yes yeah  there are two systems of Justice um I I don’t the  

two systems of Justice are not purely based on you  know racial disparity they are based on economic  

disparity which yes does you know frequently  favor you know certain races over the others  

but it is purely econom iics and you are entitled  to as much justice as you can afford that is the  

unfortunate reality um however those biggest  most expensive lawyers ones that are charging  

over $1,000 an hour are not necessarily the best  they’re not they’re the most expensive and they  

they will tell you that they’re the best but you  know what they’re really the best at is charging  

their clients so you do have the ability to fight  back if you get the right lawyer um and you know  

there are good lawyers out there uh that can be  had for for a more reasonable rate um but to go  

up against one of these monolithic you know  mlaw 100 firms I love beating up those guys  

they’re fun um just the same as and and they’re  they’re not even quite as much fun as taking down  

the federal government you know the biggest you  know most expensive law firm of the country the  

United States Department of Justice um so it is  not an automatic loss just because one side has  

more money than the other but is it an advant AG  absolutely I mean look when I used to go in the  

night aronds in New York City I walk in sit in the  back of the room and watch and you have case after  

case after case where these poor you know people  have brought out handcuffs brought up to the uh  

to the podium where a public defender turns and  talks to them for 30 seconds bug Defender sitting  

there with a wrinkled suit black sneakers instead  of you know regular dress shoes crooked tie turns  

to the judge and says he’d like to plea guilty  and you see the cycle of that all night long and  

then they call my client and that public defender  steps to the side and I walk up pinstriped suit  

you know cowboy boots you know pocket square  everything around and you know what the judge  

does as soon as I walk into the courtroom sits up  straight he starts paying attention because here  

is you know a case that’s going to be a little  bit different than the others yes there are  

two systems of justice and when I you know when  somebody like me walks into the room the judges  

and the prosecutors you they they take notice so  yeah that’s true it’s complicated it’s complicated  

world and it’s it’s hard to imagine how that’s  fair but I suppose that is just the world that  

we live in and yeah something that I was I had  confliction about asking this next question I  

wasn’t sure if it was necessarily an appropriate  question to ask so I kind of pondered on the idea  

but I feel like we get interesting conversation  from the difficult questions at times so I will  

ask it and feel free to brush this off if it’s um  you know if if brush it off in an interesting way  

yes sir I like the sound of that um going off of  what you said there the reason why I’m asking this  

is really because it leads out of the subject we  just spoke about quite well but when you get to  

the top of the food chain in terms of politics  industry Corporation and these people who are  

very very powerful is anyone truly innocent  at the top of the food chain there is anyone  

actually clean and when you get to that stage  where people are so powerful and everything and  

they’ve got these legal teams behind them backing  them and stuff is it just a case of who’s clean  

their shoes better of the mud who kind of comes  out on top of it all or or are there exceptions  

when it comes to these kind of things where people  are actually totally clean in your opinion I’m  

actually that’s a good question and I’m going to  turn it on its head slightly because when I say  

there are two systems of Justice I’m not talking  about guilty people walking free although that  

certainly does happen occasionally I’m  talking about innocent people going to

jail there are are an incredible number of  cases where people are overcharged they’re  

improperly charged the investigations are done  poorly and the reality is that if you do not  

have the wherewithal to present the defense  you run the substantial risk of going to

jail do prosecutors and the police Target certain  

people yes you know who who they  like to Target citizens people

defendants they get promoted based on their  conviction rate so they want to win every  

single case you know the the fiction of  a prosecutors out there just to do the  

right thing looks great on TV but it’s not  something you regularly see in a courthouse  

and so you know they do do everything they  can to win their case even if the police  

have arrested the wrong person and so it’s not  about you know that the people at the top have  

these fancy lawyers and so they can get away  with everything it’s about the people at the  

bottom don’t have the fancy lawyers therefore  can’t counter what the government is doing and  

therefore run a much more substantial risk  of going to jail for something they didn’t

do wow it’s the stuff that you don’t see isn’t  it and you know someone who doesn’t know much  

about law this has been a really really insightful  podcast and you I app I appreciate you coming on  

this has been really really good and the last  thing I kind of wanted to touch on of you here  

because I know we’ve got a bit of extra time on  our hands so you know we’re going long but if I   paint like a little picture for you or like a  little story and this one’s going to be more  

personal to me because it was something that  I thought of listening to your your podcast   with uh with sha and so if we go into that story  and you give me a little bit of advice there but  

also interlace kind of a generic advice to self  structure it in that way seeing what happened with  

Eddie Gallagher kind of opened my eye a little  bit sorry not edal um um Dallas Alexander open  

my eye a little bit with what happened happened  there and it’s kind of a little bit scary slightly  

because actually the guests that Shan’s had on his  show are very similar to the guest that I’ve had   on as well we’ve got a few names that kind of  coincide there and in fact you know his recent  

guest Tim Kennedy I’ve asked him to be on the  show before as well and if something happened  

like what happened with Dallas Alexander to a  show like mine for example if it starts to go  

really big and starts to you know grow to hundreds  of thousand you know 500,000 a million subscribers  

and then you know you get hit with something  someone some government some something comes  

after you for something you’ve put out for example  for me what’s the flowchart there for approaching  

something like that happening and I guess what  everyone could take away from your answer here   is if you need a lawyer how do you go about  that and how do you approach something when  

someone or something’s come after you so engage  with a lawyer early okay that’s what Shawn did  

the moment that he got that letter from the uh um  and you want me to give a quick synopsis of that  

case so people know what we’re talking about that  would be good that would be yeah so so Sean Sean   Ryan had a guest on his show um Dallas Alexander  who’s a former um Special Operation sniper from  

the Canadian um military and they were talking  about the world record longest sniper kill in  

history and they showed some video of it uh and he  posted this episode and then shortly thereafter he  

got a letter from the um I’m going to forget the  name of the agency but it’s basically the Canadian  

version of the Special Operations Command saying  you’ve just published classified information you  

know take take it down you’re risking you know  we can come after you for all these things and  

um and so terrifying letter um which by the way  that’s what lawyers do we write terrifying letters  

they’re called interum letters which is Latin  for to terrify and it had its effect um but what  

Sean did is he immediately reached out to Teddy  Gallagher and said hey can I get Tim stumber um  

and so I read the letter those kind of letters  which are intended to terrify you don’t terrify  

me because I know what’s behind them and I read  that letter and I immediately started laughing  

because I thought the threats you’re putting in  here only apply to people with security clearances  

some of them only apply to Canadian citizens not  American and and then there was a funny part at  

the end that I’ll come back to in a minute but um  but basically Canada their law laws are different  

from the United States laws and so a lot of what  they were arguing is because they don’t have a  

First Amendment we do and then the part of the  bottom that was funny was um additionally any  

photographs taken by military personnel are the  intellectual property belonging to his majesty  

the king um which I found unreasonably funny  that here I’m getting ready to argue the US  

Constitution renders everything you just said  improper and we actually get to talk about his  

majesty of the king because we wrote that document  specifically because we didn’t like having his   majesty the king anymore uh so the big thing is  when you get something like that engage a lawyer

early and and that will give you a sense  of perspective because as soon as as soon  

as Sean sent me the letter and I had the  opportunity to read it and then explain   it to him in constitutional terms his blood  pressure went way down you know excuse me yeah  

that’s really the big thing okay and I think just  for a generalized idea at least like something  

that’s going to be more or less generic how  deep of a pocket are we talking so let’s say  

you know in five years time talk for podcast  gets hit by something from a former military  

guest who may have revealed a story or something  how much are we talking in terms of like what do  

you need to budget for a lawyer or someone who  can adequately defend you like we said without  

being whitewashed by the whole thing so it  it really depends it really really depends  

you know lawyers charge in several different  ways some charge flat fees uh some charge by  

the hour um I personally hate hourly billing I  think it’s terrifying because it’s it’s a blank  

check um especially for those lawyers would  like to charge over $1,000 doll an hour um  

which is totally unreasonable in my opinion but  um it really depends and really you you want to  

make sure that you have a clear understanding  at the Inception of um what is going to be  

covered and now you take a case and you break  it into phases most cases can be resolved very

quickly unless the lawyer doesn’t want to um and  this is unfortunately another you know sub theme  

here uh that may be beyond the scope for the time  we have today but unfortunately my profession also  

has a lot of people out there that are not doing  the right thing that are needlessly extending  

cases and making them more difficult and more  expensive because they get to get paid more um  

so it’s it’s a very difficult question to answer  yeah I will tell you just my my personal um you  

know philosophy on it and how I operate um I said  earlier you get what you pay for with a lawyer  

with certain exceptions um some lawyers like like  myself have embraced you know the the cloud-based  

Law Firm mentality where everything that you  used to do in that big fancy law office with  

having your library with all the law books and  everything that’s all pre- internet everything  

that that big office has I have on my laptop and  so I don’t need need to spend any money on rent  

anywhere and so I run a nationwide law firm with  multiple lawyers and my rent is a mailbox in my  

gym okay a mailbox and and a shared loung space  in the gym and so all my people work from home I  

work from home this is my basement and I passed  that savings on to my clients so by by 50% over  

50% of a law firm’s Revenue goes to the overhead  of maintaining that big fancy office so if you can  

find a good lawyer who doesn’t have a big fancy  office you’re going to get much more value for  

your money oh you know our rates our rates are  about 50% of what I would charge if I had to have  

an actual you know fancy office downtown nice  all right man so that’s there are ways to get  

what you need at the price you can afford okay  well I’ve got your number now so uh hopefully I  

don’t have to make a call in future but if I do I  think I know who I uh who I’ll be looking to talk   to and um well for now that’s the um that’s that’s  the questions for today Tim I think we’ve just run  

over just over an hour so I think we’re we’ got  a great episode just in the can there and um it’s  

time for the the Shameless plug so take a minute  promotee anything that you’ve uh you’ve worked on  

or are working on you want people to take a look  at just something you believe in so that could be   social media website and um please feel free to  accept an open invitation to for another episode  

in the near future because I feel like we’ve uh we  got a lot more to dig into as well for for another   episode sure I mean so my I’m on uh social media  um Instagram is kind of my main platform T Lor  

first initial last name uh and I I post on there  um you know little explainer videos on you know  

various legal issues that come up uh as well as  weightlifting videos just because that’s that’s   what I like to do practice law and pick up heavy  things um and you know my firm parlor Law Group uh  

it’s you the website www.p paratory lawgroup.com  uh or online on the social media platforms at  

parator Law Group um you know we have a team of  attorneys that you know like I said everybody  

works for B and so what that does for me is  allows me to provide legal services to people  

that wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford them  and a lot of people that I hire do things that   I don’t know how to do and so a lot of our focus  is on helping entrepreneurs you know grow their  

businesses and so you know particularly veteran  entrepreneurs that want to start a business and  

all of the legal aspects that you could go on  Legal Zoom and try and figure out on your own  

but probably mess up you can get those services  at an affordable rate with us um the other thing  

that allows me to do is because no nobody has  to be in any particular place it allows me to  

hire a lot of people that are otherwise you know  considered unhirable about a third of my attorneys  

and 100% of my support staff are married to active  duty military personnel and so they move around  

constantly and they often don’t live where their  licenses are and so they’re able to telecommute  

you know through that right so you so that’s  that’s my firm um and you know beyond that um  

you know that we do a lot of cases we represent a  lot of military personnel um you a lot of what I’m  

doing you know now 2024 interestingly has been  the year of the Navy because I’m constantly in  

Navy courtrooms right now um but you know we we  try and represent clients you know Nationwide  

great stuff last little thing then that’s become  a new show classic kind of tradition is the very  

final final roundoff question if you found a  young you kind of running around the streets  

13 14 years old or something what would you  want to whisper in young you’s ear going  

forward into the future any key bits of advice  or anything you’ve got there for for a young you

no I don’t because everything that I’ve  built has been [Music] through Discovery and  

overcoming adversity and so there is nothing  that I regret that I that I’d say oh I wish  

I could go back and tell younger me um you know  do this differently do that differently because  

everything has been built upon learning through  those adverse experiences great stuff Tim thank  

you so much for joining me today for the talk for  podcast it’s been an absolute pleasure having you   on man all right thank you thank you guys for  listening to this was episode 107 if you’d like  

to listen to the past episodes go and have  a look at the channel and if you’d like to   listen in for the future ones too make sure  to hit that subscribe button and spread Love  

by leaving a like and a comment signing off  for now fights on and see you next time good [Music] night